Illegal downloading

P2P, whatever, it's illegal when it comes down to you downloading something that you should but don't end up paying for.

Is it wrong?

I download a lot, music, films, manga, anime. A lot of these forms of media I would never get to see / read because I just don't have the money to have a 1000 dvd collection etc but I hate it when people put a lot of work into something and don't get paid. Which can lead to a failing business.

I know a lot of the stuff on fakku is japanese only and scanlated, but it's interesting how they are now translating a lot of visual novels that TLwiki did for free.

At the same time, I don't like the idea of buying something I could just download for free.

What type of strategy are business going to have to take so that they can profit from a world full of illegal downloading?

Is this going to be good for both parties?

Don't feel like you need to answer any one question, just post your ideas or thoughts on the subject.

In my experience, the stuff I download is stuff I wouldn't buy unless I had a lot of disposable income (which I don't, and haven't had for a long time). So nothing changes except that I get to enjoy myself.

For example, my brother downloads a lot of music, but he buys a lot, too. He loves music, and he likes supporting his favorite artists, particularly if they're more underground and could actually use the money.

I like to buy volumes of manga, even if I can read them online. Sometimes, the official translation is better or the only version available online is very poor quality, so there are aesthetic reasons for buying the books, but in the end, it always comes down to me wanting to enjoy the book and own it. Even if I can download the Higurashi manga online, even if it's a version that has been scanned from the official English books, I'll still want to buy the books.

That said, illegal downloading is still wrong. I'm not going to try to argue some moral platitude for why it's okay to get something for free through illegal means. It's very simple - it's illegal, and the laws against illegal downloading make sense. The punishments for illegal downloading may not make sense, and the frenzy some companies have towards illegal downloading may not make sense, but I cannot say that a person does not have the right to try to make money off of something they've created. And I still do it, knowing that is wrong, but humanity isn't perfect. Everybody does wrong things; at the very least, I can admit that I'm doing something unethical.

I agree with you. I think another issue is the appreciation of lack of. You can have everything in the world, but if you don't appreciate it there isn't much point. I think illegal downloading has definitely affected my appreciation. I rip through some colour scans in minutes etc but I also like to buy the real thing. I think that is also where I find appreciation.

It's a double edged sword.

I think it IS illegal to download, but the thing is that the crowd of people doing it is far too much for the authorities to handle. I mean, who wouldnt want to get free music and movies whe you have it infrontof you and it's free?

Because of illegal downloading I buy more stuff than I did before with out it I had no idea if I liked a product and if I bought some thing I didn't like it made me not want to buy stuff for a while.

I read online/ download shit.. mainly to know if i like it, or to see if it's any good, etc.. (i only download anime and music)
if i think it's good enough, i'll buy the proper album.. I support my favourite bands, and i support any manga i like.

EG: I buy all the Trivium albums, as that is my favourite metal band.. i'll soon buy all the avenged sevenfold albums, i have all the pendulum albums, and i have some merch of trivium..
I have bought as many of the translated rosario + vampire II books that i could afford.. i'm about 2 volumes behind atm..
I'm buying campire knight manga.
Wanted to buy the shingetsutan tsukihime manga, but couldn't, since it was a few years old >< same with air gear.

It's illegal therefore it's wrong because it's illegal? I think you might want to toss that argument line.

It's more like this:

- It's illegal, and the legality makes sense
- To download illegally, knowing the law and that the law makes sense, is to disregard a law which does not need to be changed
- Purposefully disregarding a law which does not need to be changed is wrong

If I disagree with a law, if I believe that the law is unjust, then I can break the law without being "wrong." A lot of people use this position with marijuana, for example. One can even go beyond the legality and say that it is okay to steal a certain person's car because, despite the act being illegal, the man deserves it because he does many wrong things. But I cannot say that copyright laws are completely wrong, nor can I say that I am championing some cause or making some statement when I download an anime series licensed in America or the newest album from a band. I want those things, and I download them. Whether I have the money to purchase them or not doesn't matter; whether I have the desire to purchase them or not doesn't matter. The laws are clear, and while breaking a law may not be wrong, acknowledging that the law is not wrong and still breaking it is.

If my friend tells me something, and I share that information with his girlfriend, and that results in them having a big fight, I may not have done anything wrong. However, if my friend tells me something and makes it clear that I should not tell his girlfriend, and the information in no way hurts his girlfriend or even affects her, and I still tell her, then I have done something wrong.

^ agree, I would + rep you but it seems I cant...

Its illegal, but I consider it in the same level of illegal as jaywalking and not quite in the same level as grand theft as the RIAA wants to portray it. If you get caught downloading nursery songs you shouldn't be slapped with a fucking 2 million dollar fine.



Anyone who actually thinks like is the one that deserves his car to be stolen.

Pirates aside, there is a popular position that this shouldn't be taken as 'true'. So what you would say here is that in your opinion it is wrong, rather than a generalized statement.

Personally I think downloading is, LEGALLY speaking(stressing on the L word), wrong. However, on the other side of the argument is that it gives people a sort of trial period for that particular product (whether it be music, anime, manga, etc) and if people like it, they'll buy it. But on the other hand, it also gives opportunity for pirates to come out. This is an international problem and is most prominent in Malaysia. You can go to a normal Video store and buy an anime with the "legal" seal on it and when you play it you'll find that it's translated by one the fan-sub groups online.

i.e. Seitokai no Ichizon - I bought in a store with the pretty shiny "legal" seal from the government stuck on the front cover only to find out it was translated by Shinsen-subs.

..................................................WUT?!

Whenever there's something I know I will love, or if I'm a big fan of it's creators, I will buy it.

If it's overpriced I will download.

If I'm curious about something but don't want to risk my money on it in case I won't like it, I'll download it. I'll then decide if I want to support the creators, and this decision is based on how much I liked the product, how much it costs, how much the company needs their money, etc.

Also, it's always better to have a real copy of something, it gives you a feeling of actually owning it.


If companies want to stop piracy they'll just have to adapt to how the situation looks right now. Going on a crusade to catch all pirates won't work (because everyone is a pirate) and it will only make people dislike the company. If they want to make more money they'll just have to make better products. Building a strong fanbase is probably the best you can do -- a fan won't ever pirate, unless they are immoral assholes. The best way of building a fanbase is by making quality products and by caring for the fans more than the money.

*gasp* "What is this 'Salaryman' talking about!? Caring for our costumers more than money? Preposterous!"

Also, read this: http://www.gamesradar.com/gabe-newell-piracy-issue-service-not-price/. Some truth in it.




You wouldn't steal Hitler's car?

Fuck no. Why should it being hitler's car be relevant?

Weren't you discussing whether it is morally right to do an immoral act towards an immoral man? I just came along with an extreme exemple.

Wait, what? Anyone who thinks it is okay to rationalize the theft of any person's car deserves to have their car stolen? Aside from the obvious lack of sense-making happening here, didn't you effectively just state that you personally deserve to have your car stolen?

Every time someone brings up this topic I think about a certain part from the first Transformers movie. There was a fat black guy in the movie I forgot his name. But he was supposed to be some kind of hacker and that hot Australian chick asks for his help. Anyways, they get arrested and the guy says "So what if I downloaded a couple hundred songs off the internet. Who hasn't?"

The reason I think of this Is because this tells me that illegal downloading has actually become part of American culture. Now that might sound stupid to you but I think that this is true and a really big issue. I am not about to say that I have never illegally downloaded something. Because that would be a lie. But I will say that people that don't ever consider buying a product, thinking "Oh I'll just get it for free off the internet." Are people that could not only be depriving the creator of his well deserved pay, but also could in some small way negatively impact the economy.

I like buying things. This is probably because I am a collector at heart and I like to have a physical collection of my interests. Even with that said I still from time to time will download an anime,manga or game from the internet. Does this make me a horrible person? No. Does this mean I am breaking the law? Sadly, Yes. Do I think that the FBI is going to break down my door and arrest me for illegally downloading? I seriously doubt it. All and all if you are going to Illegally download something you should try your hardest to go out and actually purchase that product.

REVENUE LOST, LOL.

No but seriously, I don't feel like some schmuck should get fined a ridiculous amount of money for sharing music. If the music Industry can find a better more efficient way of selling their music that people want, they should do it. I understand this could be a huge loss to many people involved in the process of making and distributing music, and does discourage many people from releasing new material.

Sharing music = okay
Backing up your music/games/movies = ok
Making internet parodies, amv's etc. etc. = sure
Taking someone else's intellectual property and then selling it = no bueno.




PS. I think Gabe Newell has the right idea.

echoeagle3 ^ nicely put. Maybe I'm worse. I don't really buy anime except for the Samurai X boxset I have (had for yearsss), yet I watch a lot of it. This is mostly due to the fact that anime tends to go on for hundreds of episodes and I feel like it is pointless, just to own some of it. So I really like anime, yet never really buy it. On the other hand it seems I am spending all my money on artbooks (mostly japanese) so in a way I am helping out the anime industry. Also because art lasts forever and having it in physical form is it's true representation, I also buy figures.

What is also interesting is the fact that hard drive companies and computer sales must have increased by a large percentage due to piracy. Before piracy how much GB did we actually need? compared to now. So I think piracy can change the direction of money, but there is always going to be money.

A big positive is finding new things that you like but never would realise because you wouldn't go out and buy it. But whoever talked about using it like a trial, like emulators / roms, hell, I would much rather be using the console, but if I don't have one, I'm not going to play the game for 24hrs and bail. Some people would, but I think it is the vast minority.