Life or Freedom?

I've always felt that way. I mean I support what the troops are for, even though I don't support any confrontation they are in now, but there a lot more people I support.

What about teachers and doctors? If they weren't around there wouldn't be any soldiers risking their lives for "king and country."

Soldiers are not the most important people to this country. I've had a lot of people get onto me for saying that, but that's how I feel.

You don't step outside much do you? The minute you step outside you are on camera or being watched by something or someone in authority. The American government tapped our phone calls without warrants or court approval which is in violation of our rights. Speech is being censored through various means as legislation is currently in the works to censor and "regulate" information on the internet thus taking us down the road to China's communist government.

Just a few example of how close we really are to an Orwellian society. All we need is a Ministry of Truth and a Ministry of Plenty then we'll be there.



If you aren't doing anything wrong then why do they need to monitor you?

Agreed. A lot of the basic freedoms have been taken away from us during the Bush Administration all under the veil of protecting us from terrorism, and they are still actively trying to overthrow Net Neutraility laws in order to govern information trade and distribution on the internet, and also so telecable companies can literally own the internet (hence why Time Warner and Comcast fully comply with the government rulings pertaining to piracy and and anti-neutrality arguments.)

I was using it as an example it's like the saying " the freedom of privacy only helps criminals innocent people have nothing to fear" While this statement sucks as a defense, I'm not doing anything wrong so if the FBI wants to monitor me they can waste their time. Hence why I would give up that freedom in favor of life in that instance. But like I said before freedom of speech is something that I respect and so I would die for it.

I'd prefer a death on a battlefield because that means I've cast my hand to what I believe in and am standing up for it accordingly. If I'm against something I will fight against it with others that share my beliefs, not kill myself. I think nothing is worse than dying in silence, never expressing your true feelings.

Shot in the dark. Missed any vitals.



I'd rather go with C: Not die. But, if I had to choose, I'd rather choose to die fighting, then sitting on my ass and waiting for the end.



And this is how honor died a slow and painful death, strapped to the rack of "I do not give a shit".

Still, your choice is your own. Lots of people are born without the mental state necessary to give up comfort and security and go off to war.



And why, pray tell, does honor not mean anything? For a society so obsessed with "correctness" and "morals", I see a disturbing lack of people who give two shits about honor.

I mean, I see it like this: when you die, what proceeds you? The memories you left behind, or the goods?

I figure an honor will outlast a medal or a bank account. I'd rather be remembered for a Medal of Valor then a fat bank account. Lots of people have fat bank accounts.



I agree with you on that. Soldiers are just the guys using the guns. I'd love to see a military function without it's support structure and financial base, as well as recruitment pool.

Also, Iraq is a rather stupid occupation. I mean, put in terms a gamer could understand, the standing orders are to sit on their ass until ordered to leave. Also, not to shoot civilians without good reason. Also, bombs.

Honestly. My younger brother could come up with a better stratagem then that.



What, that place where the evil orb that burns me hangs in the sky for roughly half the day?

Ick.

Anyway, while you may think that, I get this impression that your paranoia is getting the better of you, and you are overreacting. I'm not one for ignoring problems and hoping they go away, but I don't see our domestic spying issues escalating into Orwellian levels any time soon. I, probably overly optimistically, predict that once the Internet generation enters the political field proper, issues like Net Neutrality will cease to be an issue. The other problems won't be solved merely by arguing about then on the net, so I can't comment. I am not evading the issue. I'd like to plead the fifth, for fear my lack of knowledge will make me add something stupid(er) to the spiel.



Bush was an ass, and Obama is an idiot. I don't see any major changes occurring in the next four years, but I'll leave a lifeline for Obama and hope he surprises me.

Also, China is funny. Funny like that kid on the short bus with the blockish face. I don't understand why people pay attention to their shit any more. I wrote them off for gone long ago. Nothing short of a major governmental revolution is going to help them.



I think the issue is, "What if they suddenly decide whatever you are doing is, in fact, wrong?", and "Why are they looking at you in the first place if you aren't doing anything wrong?"

Which I would agree with. I mean, it kinda bothers me that at any point I may receive a court summons due to my large collection of Lolicon. I'm sure I won't, because it's still legal under the first, but you never know when someone will just decide, "Fuck that".






Wow. That involved way too much Copy and Paste.

I apologize for anything that didn't make much sense in here. I've been playing Prototype all night, and I can't quite get into the workings of the real world yet. Every time some minor problem annoys me, I keep trying to pull out my claws and impale it from underground.

I wouldn't call it paranoia as seeing current events foreshadowing future ones. Everyday I turn on the news and I hear that government is growing or somebody else is claiming the government needs to do this or that. Everything from the fairness doctrine to expanding government controlled education (by preventing expansion of private or home schooling). Somebody calling for more government control over industry or nationalizing them. These events are the seeds of Orwellian Ministries like the Ministry of Plenty. The current mass media is like the Ministry of Truth. Anything against the party is damned but, anything within the party is treated like a savior by some. Domestic spying is showing signs of becoming the Ministry of love.

Do you think the people in the Orwellian society would see it as such? These types of changes are subtle so it won't be blatantly obvious.

How does that fit in with your "I believe what I see"-scepticism?
The "internet generation" will make a facebook group or an online petition protesting it;
the end.

videlicet Britain, Germany, France.

Call it a hope against hope.

And in this case, it's "When I see it".

You're thinking of the population at large. But we are always going to have politicians. Our current breed are all of an outdated model that still believes you can quote bullshit from history and not have some idiot try to call you out with "Reference needed" after googling it.

I'm just waiting for the generation that grew up with PCs and internet access to enter the field. I want to see what kind of shit those politicians will be full of.

The very same as now.
As psychology has known for eons, politicians are all one of a kind (similar to journalists, by the by), in that they carry such a fortified ego and sense of self-worth that they become resistant to any kind of advice or scepticism and see themselves as luminaries, high above the common plebs.

Because I don't care if people like me a little better just because I went out to shoot bitches and most likely die. I do not want to do another's bidding for the sake of "honor."


My child. Plus, I'll be too dead to care what others think of me. My bad, I wasn't indoctrinated with the value of honor.

Here's something interesting that I think will enlighten you to why I don't give a shit about honor so much. It's part of a chapter of the book In Defense of Evil by Terroja Kincaid(not his real name and he's not a famous writer)

Honor: Another String Tied To the Human Marionette, Nothing More.

I find the alleged lack of people with "honor" in our society refreshing. Honor is naught but a carrot on a stick to enforce a rigid corsage of nonsensical rules and values.


Because people found out that being bound to some archaic, groundless traditions will do less for individual happiness and the common good than skipping ahead to what is, or at least seems, momentarily appropriate.

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And I do not see what is so honorable about waging war, at all.
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What a fun quote. It's been a while since I read such a delectable sack of shit, since I gave up trolling conservatives.

Honor is not a form of obedience. It may be misconstrued as such, but I feel only by those with an incredibly limited capacity for introspection.

Honor is a belief system that hangs it's hat on the ideologies of "Not being an asshole", "Doing the right thing", and all that crap associated with Lawful/Neutral Good.

And, I ask that you don't bring up the Samurai code of honor unless you've spent some time studying both the culture and the time period. Or, preferably, the culture of the time period.

Japan has always had an overbearing, "Obey me!" culture. It's mellowed out recently, but it was incredibly hardcore back then.

Though, I do admit, It WAS used as a form of control back then, but only over two parts of the population.

Wait...fuck. Two halves. My bad.

All right, fine. You know what? I don't care. I have this sneaking suspicion I'm mixing my views on Honor and Chivalry.



Out of curiosity, do you happen to habitually denounce religion?

I can't for the life of me remember everyone's religious views, so I need that point confirmed.

Also, you're mixing Honor with Political Correctness.

And, about War, it's a matter of competition. The reason that humanity has massive records of War is because, like other animals on this planet, we tend to compete. Animals compete for mates, food, and territory. Being the dominant species, we tend to do the same, but on a grander scale.

Also, with the introduction of intelligence, we also compete for ideologies. As well, being the only species on this planet with self-awareness, we are the only species capable of marking down our histories. If we were to study the histories of other species, we would find naught but war in them, as well. It's part of that silly scheme nature concocted called "Evolution".

Also, Still playing Prototype, still not very coherent.

Doing good things and not being an asshole, huh. That's morality buddy, not honor. "Doing the right thing." Like obeying your commanding officer no matter what or else you're dishonorable. It's also the "belief system" where you believe that you're dishonorable if you don't do what people expect of you. If you do, then you're honorable, and they like you more because of your obedience.

Ever welch on a bet before? I have. Why? Because honor in a bet has no meaning to me and I don't have to obey the little honorable rules of betting. It's not like the winner was going to put me in some sort of difficult position. Was I supposed to feel that warm tingly masculine ethic telling my conscience that I would be diminished in some way if I didn't pay up? Oh the horror of not being obedienthonorable.

I believe that honor and morality go hand in hand. Something done by a person that is considered honorable is usually not the person trying to obey, but to actually realize that they have something they wouldn't mind sacrificing themselves for. The application of the Medal of Honor to this discussion mocks the men who won it.

In nearly all instances, the Medal of Honor is awarded because the soldier's actions were the direct cause of lives being saved, and in most instances, the soldier awarded is killed during his actions. I'll cite the Delta Force Operators Randall Shugart and Gary Gordon.

2 Delta Marksman inserted into a hot zone with no air support or time-table for reinforcements. They fought their way to the second Black Hawk crash site and extracted CWO Michael Durant from the hot zone, then were killed after running out of ammo in their rifles and being over-run by Somalian mobs. Their delaying action saved the life of Michael Durant, who was taken prisoner because Mohammed Farah Aidid's Lieutenants were able to arrive on the scene while he was still alive. They did what they did because they valued the life of their comrade and wished to save him while still being dis-obedient. They asked General Garrison for permission to insert into the hot zone on three occasions and were denied each time, then were finally granted clearance when continuing to persist. To call what they did honorable is correct. To say it was obeying a superior officer is an insult to them.

(These two men died during Operation Irene in the Bakara Market of Mogadishu, Somalia in the Summer of 1993)

Well, I'd choose life no matter what kind of life it is, because there's always a chance things will improve. Since I'm an atheist, I believe that death is the end of the road, so it really makes no sense to sacrifice my life to improve others lives, though I'd obviously be looked up to as a war hero, that really doesn't get me anywhere if I'm dead xD

Though if I had to kill an innocent person to stay alive, it would be a different matter, or at least I like to think that.

What about Kantianism? Death may well be the end, but what if you could improve the life of a loved one with your death?

Yeah, I respect that some people will give their lives for what some people wouldn't. I just think that its an insult to dirty the names of heroes by questioning why they decided to do what they did, because it wasn't "Oh, I was told to."

As a side-note, though I disagree with the choice to not sacrifice yourself for ANYTHING, I do respect your endless hope, because sometimes that's all that can get you through what you're going through. + Rep for you.

That's a tough question. I don't think I would though, unless this "improvement" meant saving their life.

In the current situation, freedom for me. Why? What will be life under someone who's bold about nukes, we shouldn't let muthafuckas on the top.

If life's so precious to you, you wouldn't hand it over to bad guys. Unlike fighting for freedom, there's a chance to have better life.