Porn, Abuse, and Women
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I think as long as its consensual and between adults, i don't see it as abuse. If a women(or man) is forced into something they don't want to, then i say throw the people who forced them into first place in jail.
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
A person willingly signs a contract with another person and as long as the people who signed the contract are well informed of what is to be expected then I see no problem. It's called informed consent. As for misinforming, misleading or intimidating the girls into these acts. I say sue the companies, bankrupt them then throw the men responsible in prison.I'm predicting that this thread will turn into a Heather Veitch & Shelly Lubben style crusade to destroy the porn industry. That's just a hunch though.
Yeah, there you go. That's what I was trying to say, but I just couldn't say it I suppose.
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Tsurayu wrote...
Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
A person willingly signs a contract with another person and as long as the people who signed the contract are well informed of what is to be expected then I see no problem. It's called informed consent. As for misinforming, misleading or intimidating the girls into these acts. I say sue the companies, bankrupt them then throw the men responsible in prison.I'm predicting that this thread will turn into a Heather Veitch & Shelly Lubben style crusade to destroy the porn industry. That's just a hunch though.
Yeah, there you go. That's what I was trying to say, but I just couldn't say it I suppose.
You argue long enough against good debaters and you quickly learn how to phrase your words properly. It's like a muscle, gotta use to to make it better.
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I didn't click those links, as I still want to have lunch today.
Of course there's abuse in the porn industry, and plenty of exploitation. Not every porn flick, however, is the result of abuse and exploitation.
I'd wager that a sizable majority isn't the result of abuse.
I'd contend that the vast majority of professional porn is the result of exploitation. The vast majority of any product in this world is the result of heavy-duty exploitation. Damn.
I'd furthermore contend that the majority of "lol we film ourselves fuckin' and put it on the net for ego" flicks aren't the result of abuse or exploitation.
What is to be done about that abuse and exploitation? What FPOD said:
Admittedly numerous victims may not have the necessary legal clout, know-how, cash or guts to do so. But, in this case idealistic young men and women like you, iSquall, are called upon to take the fight where it belongs; be it by setting up a legal fund, by enlisting pro-bono legal counsel, or, perhaps most useful of all, by setting up and promoting a trade union for those in the industry.
Perhaps I'm a lick too cynical for this world, but that kind of rhetoric doesn't really work with me.
To most people a road is just an infrastructure to travel upon, but did you know that a bit more than a handful of construction workers are illegal immigrants who are routinely abused behind the scenes, when it comes to building roads?
Repeat for any kind of agrarian or heavy industry or consumer electronics product.
No, Sir!, if I were to worry about who's being abused for the sake of my standard of living, I'd have wedded the rope-maker's daughter a long time ago.
disclaimer: I don't even watch/care for real porn, so I'm totally one hundred thousand per cent objective on the issue at hand, because I'm not worried about having it 'taken away from me'!
Of course there's abuse in the porn industry, and plenty of exploitation. Not every porn flick, however, is the result of abuse and exploitation.
I'd wager that a sizable majority isn't the result of abuse.
I'd contend that the vast majority of professional porn is the result of exploitation. The vast majority of any product in this world is the result of heavy-duty exploitation. Damn.
I'd furthermore contend that the majority of "lol we film ourselves fuckin' and put it on the net for ego" flicks aren't the result of abuse or exploitation.
What is to be done about that abuse and exploitation? What FPOD said:
As for misinforming, misleading or intimidating the girls into these acts. I say sue the companies, bankrupt them then throw the men responsible in prison.
Admittedly numerous victims may not have the necessary legal clout, know-how, cash or guts to do so. But, in this case idealistic young men and women like you, iSquall, are called upon to take the fight where it belongs; be it by setting up a legal fund, by enlisting pro-bono legal counsel, or, perhaps most useful of all, by setting up and promoting a trade union for those in the industry.
For most people that's all there is to porn and all there ever will be to it. But did you know that a bit more than a handful of women are abused behind the scenes, when it comes to porn?
Perhaps I'm a lick too cynical for this world, but that kind of rhetoric doesn't really work with me.
To most people a road is just an infrastructure to travel upon, but did you know that a bit more than a handful of construction workers are illegal immigrants who are routinely abused behind the scenes, when it comes to building roads?
Repeat for any kind of agrarian or heavy industry or consumer electronics product.
No, Sir!, if I were to worry about who's being abused for the sake of my standard of living, I'd have wedded the rope-maker's daughter a long time ago.
disclaimer: I don't even watch/care for real porn, so I'm totally one hundred thousand per cent objective on the issue at hand, because I'm not worried about having it 'taken away from me'!
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@Gibbous:
Well, for someone who didn't click a single link, you sure do know how to answer a question, and do it pretty accurately. But as I said, "you don't need to watch them to understand what I'm talking about". Fakku has a good amount of seemingly intelligent users.
More over, I'm pretty sure that a good amount of porn videos aren't the result of abuse. Chances are, that "wager" of yours would be correct. I tried to word my first post to make it clear that I'm not saying all women are abused and that some might be/are... but I'm not sure many caught onto that.
That aside, I don't have much of an opinion on what should be done about the abuse and exploitation, since that's a sub-topic. (For me, the main topic was how the abuse made you guys feel and if you ever wonder if the women/woman you're looking at may have been forced to do what she's doing.) Plus, as you pointed out, that one statement of mine can apply to anything. . . Women, immigrants, factory workers in china, and so on. As a result, I won't get too deep into that. I do, however, agree with your suggestion about setting up some sort of legal fund or trade union.
Unfortunately, I don't think I'm the guy to do it. I don't have what it takes at this point in time, only an opinion. That's not to say an opinion doesn't hold power. . .
Anyway, thanks for the response.
Well, for someone who didn't click a single link, you sure do know how to answer a question, and do it pretty accurately. But as I said, "you don't need to watch them to understand what I'm talking about". Fakku has a good amount of seemingly intelligent users.
More over, I'm pretty sure that a good amount of porn videos aren't the result of abuse. Chances are, that "wager" of yours would be correct. I tried to word my first post to make it clear that I'm not saying all women are abused and that some might be/are... but I'm not sure many caught onto that.
Spoiler:
That aside, I don't have much of an opinion on what should be done about the abuse and exploitation, since that's a sub-topic. (For me, the main topic was how the abuse made you guys feel and if you ever wonder if the women/woman you're looking at may have been forced to do what she's doing.) Plus, as you pointed out, that one statement of mine can apply to anything. . . Women, immigrants, factory workers in china, and so on. As a result, I won't get too deep into that. I do, however, agree with your suggestion about setting up some sort of legal fund or trade union.
Unfortunately, I don't think I'm the guy to do it. I don't have what it takes at this point in time, only an opinion. That's not to say an opinion doesn't hold power. . .
Anyway, thanks for the response.
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It doesnt really bother me, no. After all I consider all work a form of abuse. Though mostly of the menial kind, typically the more abuse you have to go through the higher the pay...
That also includes studying to become a doctor and so forth. Then again, I suppose I have a relatively wide definition for abuse going so far as stating that the process of socialization itself is also a form of abuse (seeing as conditioning is the most basic of learning processes), but I digress...
That also includes studying to become a doctor and so forth. Then again, I suppose I have a relatively wide definition for abuse going so far as stating that the process of socialization itself is also a form of abuse (seeing as conditioning is the most basic of learning processes), but I digress...
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@Discordia: Despite the digression, it was short (but not too short) and answered the question that I posed. A good answer, in my opinion. And now, I think I've had enough opinions on the matter. . . I'll simply watch where the thread goes (if anyone chooses to respond).
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Well, I personally am not into the abusive type of porn, it's kind of a turn off, if they start crying instead of screaming in pleasure.
But even thou I don't like it, I still think this is part of the job of porn actresses and people involved in that scene.
For the professional stuff you sign a contract nowadays, you just gotta read it carefully to see whats included in the whole "work" you're gonna do.
Those 2 vids you put up are most likely amateur crap, some wanna-be pimp being bored and booby-slapping a bitch he picked up somewhere.
The girls, even thou they're suffering, are probably gonna get paid for it either way, so yeah whatever.
But even thou I don't like it, I still think this is part of the job of porn actresses and people involved in that scene.
For the professional stuff you sign a contract nowadays, you just gotta read it carefully to see whats included in the whole "work" you're gonna do.
Those 2 vids you put up are most likely amateur crap, some wanna-be pimp being bored and booby-slapping a bitch he picked up somewhere.
The girls, even thou they're suffering, are probably gonna get paid for it either way, so yeah whatever.
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Yeah it is tragic how abused some of the women are. But the real tragedy is that these women don't realize they are the ones with the power in the sex industry. And if they are being so mistreated, why don't they do something about it?
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@Mrprinnybomb
Well Gibbous made a statement earlier, that can be considered an answer to your question. Most of them are probably missing out on the following:
That likely explains why they may be stuck in a situation like it.
@Deathwind:
Yeah, it's definitely a turn off and something that made me get to thinking. And that's exactly why I made this thread for it.
Anyway, yeah, it was amateur crap I'm sure. And chances are, the cases of abuse happen mainly in amateur porn. Oh and finally, yeah I agree that in the end, there is the pay. I just sometimes wonder if they have no other way (or limited ways) to make a living, and are forced into these types of things.
Well Gibbous made a statement earlier, that can be considered an answer to your question. Most of them are probably missing out on the following:
[size=10]"Admittedly numerous victims may not have the necessary legal clout, know-how, cash or guts to do so." --Gibbous [/h]
That likely explains why they may be stuck in a situation like it.
@Deathwind:
Yeah, it's definitely a turn off and something that made me get to thinking. And that's exactly why I made this thread for it.
Anyway, yeah, it was amateur crap I'm sure. And chances are, the cases of abuse happen mainly in amateur porn. Oh and finally, yeah I agree that in the end, there is the pay. I just sometimes wonder if they have no other way (or limited ways) to make a living, and are forced into these types of things.
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This does bother me, i do think about the people in pornography, however, it is a business, and anyone can quit, if it is mistreatment, they should leave.
The choices we make are what define us a people, and if someone is too afraid to act on their emotions, they won't get far. They will end up psychologically damaged. This is why people need to learn to stick to their convictions.
The choices we make are what define us a people, and if someone is too afraid to act on their emotions, they won't get far. They will end up psychologically damaged. This is why people need to learn to stick to their convictions.
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This indeed is disturbing knowledge. If there is abuse I want no part of it, funding means complacency. However, how do you verify it? Or do you just stay away from all of it? real porn that is.(actual questions, please answer.)The problem is the catch 22. If you choose to use heavy legal actions it will mean possible implications for other mediums that use the first amendment for protection, minority political groups and such. But, if you ignore the issue you are letting crimes go unavenged. Overall I do believe that there should be control, the question is how much. A light hand leads to industry out of control, a heavy hand leads to thriving black markets, like you always know a guy that can help you get weed.
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desperate measures calls for desperate acts, no?
Maybe they didn't have a choice?
Maybe they liked it that way.
Maybe they were really forced into it.
Bottomline, its still not a good thing. No matter if its for pleasure or hellish experiences, but they shouldn't be indulged in such acts in the first place.
Then again, it all comes back to how a person view things about porn and sex. if they think a little too much on it, bad stuff could happen and even vice-versa.
And yeah, this piece of info does bother me quite a bit.
Maybe they didn't have a choice?
Maybe they liked it that way.
Maybe they were really forced into it.
Bottomline, its still not a good thing. No matter if its for pleasure or hellish experiences, but they shouldn't be indulged in such acts in the first place.
Then again, it all comes back to how a person view things about porn and sex. if they think a little too much on it, bad stuff could happen and even vice-versa.
And yeah, this piece of info does bother me quite a bit.
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Well, a good amount of you responded to the questions asked, and gave some pretty good insight on the issue. It seems the overall ideas that most of you expressed are:
-They sign the documents, they're responsible
-This really only happens in amateur porn, professionals aren't as abusive
-And finally, something should probably be done about the situation if I/others desire change/reform.
And I'm glad that some of you answered my main question, telling me whether or not it bothered you or caused you to think a bit differently.
[size=14]That said, I think I'll stop posting in this thread now[/h]. I asked for answers and I received enough. Thanks Fakkers. If, however, someone has questions directed to me(like the ones below), I'll post again to answer them. Aside from that, and from this point on, I'll only be reading future replies.. not responding to them.
I do watch real porn, but I refuse to watch and or masturbate to porn in which people are being abused (same goes for CP). I was bored and went to eFuckt, to see what type of crazy, whacked out porn I could find.. but I definitely wasn't expecting to see such videos. I don't approve of them, nor do I condone of videos in which females (or anyone else for that matter) are crying or being hurt.
As for the first question "However, how do you verify it?", I can't really answer that, mainly because I'm not sure what you're asking. If you're asking how can I be sure if the abuse is taking place or is legitimate/real, than I can't prove/verify it.. and I'm not sure how easy it would be for others to verify it either.
-They sign the documents, they're responsible
-This really only happens in amateur porn, professionals aren't as abusive
-And finally, something should probably be done about the situation if I/others desire change/reform.
And I'm glad that some of you answered my main question, telling me whether or not it bothered you or caused you to think a bit differently.
[size=14]That said, I think I'll stop posting in this thread now[/h]. I asked for answers and I received enough. Thanks Fakkers. If, however, someone has questions directed to me(like the ones below), I'll post again to answer them. Aside from that, and from this point on, I'll only be reading future replies.. not responding to them.
Archvile2401 wrote...
This indeed is disturbing knowledge. If there is abuse I want no part of it, funding means complacency. However, how do you verify it? Or do you just stay away from all of it? real porn that is.(actual questions, please answer.)I do watch real porn, but I refuse to watch and or masturbate to porn in which people are being abused (same goes for CP). I was bored and went to eFuckt, to see what type of crazy, whacked out porn I could find.. but I definitely wasn't expecting to see such videos. I don't approve of them, nor do I condone of videos in which females (or anyone else for that matter) are crying or being hurt.
As for the first question "However, how do you verify it?", I can't really answer that, mainly because I'm not sure what you're asking. If you're asking how can I be sure if the abuse is taking place or is legitimate/real, than I can't prove/verify it.. and I'm not sure how easy it would be for others to verify it either.