We, has a species of stupidity
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Ambivalent Ecstasy wrote...
Humans are not bound to nature, we have passed several hurdles that have opposed us, many diseases are now a thing of the past (in the rich countries at least). Though we will fall prey to nature in the end, humans prolong their own lives. It is not a selfish view, as I have little to gain from this myself, and would gladly give up my life if my dream were to be realized. I care about animals, but I believe humans are able to feel pain on more levels and to a greater degree than animals.I cannot see farm animals on the same level as humans as they are quite simply not. Human beings have a greater capacity for suffering due to their greater intellect. I want humanity to change. Once it has changed, other matters can be dealt with. Currently, humanity is doing a lot of damage to the environment and is not doing enough to preserve it. Right now people are playing down the danger of global warming because it is in their best interests to do so. This cannot continue, but it will if everyone follows your example, perhaps it will be too late? Human nature is to exploit other nature - how can you say that it's good??
Is it good because human beings have survived up to now? Hmmm well how is this - I kill everyone else in the world except my girlfriend and I. Does that sound good to you? It will solve a lot of problems! Don't you think? Also that way, no-one will kill me. I will survive. That is nature, and i will not cede to it.
Let us not forget that there are millions of humans living in misery, fighting a hopeless battle for survival, but never mind - lets make sure they stop whale fishing!
I dont believe i have set up an example yet to be referenced to being the cause of the indirect and slow desctruction of the world. In fact, that is one thing im very much against. The promotion of humanity on the other hand (with the current direction it is heading), is going to accomplish exactly just that.
Humans are bound to nature, we are the part of nature itself, we just try to fight it, or think we already are free from nature's grasp, but we are still essentially part of nature. Instincts exist in all of us, instincts is nature. Reproduction; we crave sex to keep our species from dying out, it is one of the principle concepts of survival. And with survival, we kill others for food to survive, and this is part of our core instincts. Pleasure and pain are all instinctual or biological to keep our bodies either safe from harm or to achieve something beneficial.
It is also conceited to believe that humans are the only species capable of feeling more pain than animals simply because of the ideaology of intelligence. Pain is a biological feeling. It exists physically and mentally, and mental pain isnt something that is born from intelligence, it is born from emotion, and emotions are a part of insticts. All animals have emotions, they suffer both emotional and physical pain. Pain is nothing but a receptor to tell you that it is something you should avoid.
Humans have a different direction on which pain can come from, which is from problems other humans caused. Examples: cant find work, cant eat food, dont have money, etc. Builds up stress. Animals can get stressed too, you just dont know it, but their stress is built by problems of their own, cubs get pressured by their parents as well to perform well or they would get left behind and die in the wild.
It is also conceited to believe that all because farm animals are farm animals, they are not at the same level as humans. If ever, i feel even more sorry for them to live just to be consumed, their entire existence is a joke. Humans are animals too, we can so easily fall into that state if ever something like the "slave age" ever happens again (Which i doubt it will).
as for your mock proposal: If you kill every human in the planet, as a generic weak human, you would probably not be able to survive nature itself. Humans live together in groups to survive. If you meant you would kill every living thing in the planet, you will die out soon after as there will be nothing left to consume to survive.
though there are humans living in misery, there are billions of animals living in misery =X Im not saying misery or suffering is a bad thing too. This is where this saying rings true: Suffering is nature's way of strengthening.
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Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
Ambivalent Ecstasy wrote...
Humans are not bound to nature, we have passed several hurdles that have opposed us, many diseases are now a thing of the past (in the rich countries at least). Though we will fall prey to nature in the end, humans prolong their own lives. It is not a selfish view, as I have little to gain from this myself, and would gladly give up my life if my dream were to be realized. I care about animals, but I believe humans are able to feel pain on more levels and to a greater degree than animals.I cannot see farm animals on the same level as humans as they are quite simply not. Human beings have a greater capacity for suffering due to their greater intellect. I want humanity to change. Once it has changed, other matters can be dealt with. Currently, humanity is doing a lot of damage to the environment and is not doing enough to preserve it. Right now people are playing down the danger of global warming because it is in their best interests to do so. This cannot continue, but it will if everyone follows your example, perhaps it will be too late? Human nature is to exploit other nature - how can you say that it's good??
Is it good because human beings have survived up to now? Hmmm well how is this - I kill everyone else in the world except my girlfriend and I. Does that sound good to you? It will solve a lot of problems! Don't you think? Also that way, no-one will kill me. I will survive. That is nature, and i will not cede to it.
Let us not forget that there are millions of humans living in misery, fighting a hopeless battle for survival, but never mind - lets make sure they stop whale fishing!
I dont believe i have set up an example yet to be referenced to being the cause of the indirect and slow desctruction of the world. In fact, that is one thing im very much against. The promotion of humanity on the other hand (with the current direction it is heading), is going to accomplish exactly just that.
Humans are bound to nature, we are the part of nature itself, we just try to fight it, or think we already are free from nature's grasp, but we are still essentially part of nature. Instincts exist in all of us, instincts is nature. Reproduction; we crave sex to keep our species from dying out, it is one of the principle concepts of survival. And with survival, we kill others for food to survive, and this is part of our core instincts. Pleasure and pain are all instinctual or biological to keep our bodies either safe from harm or to achieve something beneficial.
It is also conceited to believe that humans are the only species capable of feeling more pain than animals simply because of the ideaology of intelligence. Pain is a biological feeling. It exists physically and mentally, and mental pain isnt something that is born from intelligence, it is born from emotion, and emotions are a part of insticts. All animals have emotions, they suffer both emotional and physical pain. Pain is nothing but a receptor to tell you that it is something you should avoid.
Humans have a different direction on which pain can come from, which is from problems other humans caused. Examples: cant find work, cant eat food, dont have money, etc. Builds up stress. Animals can get stressed too, you just dont know it, but their stress is built by problems of their own, cubs get pressured by their parents as well to perform well or they would get left behind and die in the wild.
It is also conceited to believe that all because farm animals are farm animals, they are not at the same level as humans. If ever, i feel even more sorry for them to live just to be consumed, their entire existence is a joke. Humans are animals too, we can so easily fall into that state if ever something like the "slave age" ever happens again (Which i doubt it will).
as for your mock proposal: If you kill every human in the planet, as a generic weak human, you would probably not be able to survive nature itself. Humans live together in groups to survive. If you meant you would kill every living thing in the planet, you will die out soon after as there will be nothing left to consume to survive.
though there are humans living in misery, there are billions of animals living in misery =X Im not saying misery or suffering is a bad thing too. This is where this saying rings true: Suffering is nature's way of strengthening.
I'm not a weak human, I'm confident in my ability so survive, though I was making a point to say: that would ensure my survival, and by your definition nothing would be wrong with that, it's just part of my survival instinct right? Humans are on a higher level than animals, I will state than other animals, we are the superior species. We can exploit and enslave other species, we are the most powerful.
This is what sets us apart from animals, from where we are now, we have the potential to be better, though a lot of things are rooted in instinct, you can't say that we are the same as animals simply because we share common instincts. E.g. There is a woman in the bar who you find attractive, there is another guy there who is already talking to her; do you kill the guy to show the woman your dominance?
You're ignorant of the fact that humans are living as slaves and worse even now. Just because it isn't happening to you. Suffering makes you stronger in that once you have experienced suffering you try to avoid it in future. This would be achieved, along with many other things. Humans have the potential to kill this planet and every living thing on it. They could break free from the bonds of "nature" if they wanted to.
You disgust me if you are happy to let people suffer because it is "character building", or will make them better in the end. Happy to let people die because you're living happily? Keep on saying it's natures way and I will keep saying that we need to change our own way, and make this planet a better place for everyone.
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Ambivalent Ecstasy wrote...
I'm not a weak human, I'm confident in my ability so survive, though I was making a point to say: that would ensure my survival, and by your definition nothing would be wrong with that, it's just part of my survival instinct right? Humans are on a higher level than animals, I will state than other animals, we are the superior species. We can exploit and enslave other species, we are the most powerful.This is what sets us apart from animals, from where we are now, we have the potential to be better, though a lot of things are rooted in instinct, you can't say that we are the same as animals simply because we share common instincts. E.g. There is a woman in the bar who you find attractive, there is another guy there who is already talking to her; do you kill the guy to show the woman your dominance?
You're ignorant of the fact that humans are living as slaves and worse even now. Just because it isn't happening to you. Suffering makes you stronger in that once you have experienced suffering you try to avoid it in future. This would be achieved, along with many other things. Humans have the potential to kill this planet and every living thing on it. They could break free from the bonds of "nature" if they wanted to.
You disgust me if you are happy to let people suffer because it is "character building", or will make them better in the end. Happy to let people die because you're living happily? Keep on saying it's natures way and I will keep saying that we need to change our own way, and make this planet a better place for everyone.
About your confidence to survive, im not sure if you can say the same against a pack of hyeenas or a pack of wolves without proper back-up. Or even against simple things like asian hornets or euro-african bumble bees and the likes without proper equipment.
Also, you should avoid putting words in my mouth. Though i said suffering is not a bad thing, i nver said i am happy with people suffering to "build character". I am not happy to let people die because im living happily, and i never said watching others die in glee is nature's way. O_o PLEASE leave assumptions aside and listen to the WORDS alone, im a literalist for that reason.
I have stated earlier, and will state it again: I do not favor any sides, and i believe your ideals are too one sided and am trying to balance it out a little. I did not say your ideals are wrong, i said it was flawed. I think your ideals are good, but you need to add more things into consideration to make it better. You have been providing so much argument on one side of the coin, im only giving you counter arguments on the other side of the coin, i never said i am happy with it.
I hope you realize you are very conceited too (which is what got me started with this argument, conceit brings delusion, which brings failure. Your ideals will never be met if you remain conceited). Humans, no matter what, are animals. We do not only have instincts of animals, we all have the body structures of animals. Like all mammals, we have 4 limbs, a head, a torso, a brain, heart, lungs, etc, etc. Also, during the embryotic state of ALL animals, we start out looking EXACTLY identical (with VERY minor slight difference), our growth slowly branches out during our growth in our eggs/womb depending on our species.
Also, please tell me your reference of animals killing each other over a female of their species. As far as i know, i dont know of any species of animal that does that. I am quite curious and interested in this, if you would be so kind as to post a link for reference id be thankful. And in this context, humans have done FAR worse and could be considered more barbaric than animals in alot of ways (i know this is something you want to change, but im just pointing this out since you posted about human courting).
I am not ignorant of the fact that humans are living as slaves, and no way in hell am i living happily. Although unlike other people, im slightly glad theres a fair share of "suffering" that im experiencing.
We are the superior species in terms of intelligence, but we are NEVER a superior species in our senses, our strenght, our speed, our constitution, our stamina, etc.
you also have the complete wrong concept of "suffering". You do not simply avoid something you have suffered. You face it and then grow from it. Ever heard of face your fears? now here is face your sufferings. If you have suffered something dire, the next time you suffer something of the same degree, it wont be as bad anymore, and anything of a lesser degree would be trivial to you, but it might be devastating for others. This makes you strong.
We can exploit and enslave other species, we are the most powerful.
Quoted for emphasis. How can you say something like that and still have the mindset of helping the needy? Is this "need to help the needy" a false act of some sort? maybe its a forced personality, or possibly its an under-developed ideal. Or maybe, its just plain racism against animals. Seriously, this line got me disappointed and i might not even bother to post arguments in future depending on your reply...
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Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
Ambivalent Ecstasy wrote...
I'm not a weak human, I'm confident in my ability so survive, though I was making a point to say: that would ensure my survival, and by your definition nothing would be wrong with that, it's just part of my survival instinct right? Humans are on a higher level than animals, I will state than other animals, we are the superior species. We can exploit and enslave other species, we are the most powerful.This is what sets us apart from animals, from where we are now, we have the potential to be better, though a lot of things are rooted in instinct, you can't say that we are the same as animals simply because we share common instincts. E.g. There is a woman in the bar who you find attractive, there is another guy there who is already talking to her; do you kill the guy to show the woman your dominance?
You're ignorant of the fact that humans are living as slaves and worse even now. Just because it isn't happening to you. Suffering makes you stronger in that once you have experienced suffering you try to avoid it in future. This would be achieved, along with many other things. Humans have the potential to kill this planet and every living thing on it. They could break free from the bonds of "nature" if they wanted to.
You disgust me if you are happy to let people suffer because it is "character building", or will make them better in the end. Happy to let people die because you're living happily? Keep on saying it's natures way and I will keep saying that we need to change our own way, and make this planet a better place for everyone.
About your confidence to survive, im not sure if you can say the same against a pack of hyeenas or a pack of wolves without proper back-up. Or even against simple things like asian hornets or euro-african bumble bees and the likes without proper equipment.
Also, you should avoid putting words in my mouth. Though i said suffering is not a bad thing, i nver said i am happy with people suffering to "build character". I am not happy to let people die because im living happily, and i never said watching others die in glee is nature's way. O_o PLEASE leave assumptions aside and listen to the WORDS alone, im a literalist for that reason.
I have stated earlier, and will state it again: I do not favor any sides, and i believe your ideals are too one sided and am trying to balance it out a little. I did not say your ideals are wrong, i said it was flawed. I think your ideals are good, but you need to add more things into consideration to make it better. You have been providing so much argument on one side of the coin, im only giving you counter arguments on the other side of the coin, i never said i am happy with it.
I hope you realize you are very conceited too (which is what got me started with this argument, conceit brings delusion, which brings failure. Your ideals will never be met if you remain conceited). Humans, no matter what, are animals. We do not only have instincts of animals, we all have the body structures of animals. Like all mammals, we have 4 limbs, a head, a torso, a brain, heart, lungs, etc, etc. Also, during the embryotic state of ALL animals, we start out looking EXACTLY identical (with VERY minor slight difference), our growth slowly branches out during our growth in our eggs/womb depending on our species.
Also, please tell me your reference of animals killing each other over a female of their species. As far as i know, i dont know of any species of animal that does that. I am quite curious and interested in this, if you would be so kind as to post a link for reference id be thankful. And in this context, humans have done FAR worse and could be considered more barbaric than animals in alot of ways (i know this is something you want to change, but im just pointing this out since you posted about human courting).
I am not ignorant of the fact that humans are living as slaves, and no way in hell am i living happily. Although unlike other people, im slightly glad theres a fair share of "suffering" that im experiencing.
We are the superior species in terms of intelligence, but we are NEVER a superior species in our senses, our strenght, our speed, our constitution, our stamina, etc.
you also have the complete wrong concept of "suffering". You do not simply avoid something you have suffered. You face it and then grow from it. Ever heard of face your fears? now here is face your sufferings. If you have suffered something dire, the next time you suffer something of the same degree, it wont be as bad anymore, and anything of a lesser degree would be trivial to you, but it might be devastating for others. This makes you strong.
We can exploit and enslave other species, we are the most powerful.
Quoted for emphasis. How can you say something like that and still have the mindset of helping the needy? Is this "need to help the needy" a false act of some sort? maybe its a forced personality, or possibly its an under-developed ideal. Or maybe, its just plain racism against animals. Seriously, this line got me disappointed and i might not even bother to post arguments in future depending on your reply...
I am fortunate enough to live in a temperate climate. You have honestly never seen two males fight over a mate on a nature show? They do not always kill but it happens. I mentioned you saying it was character building because you said that suffering was nature's way of making you stronger. I disagree, if you are shot once, and it hurts a lot the first time, partly due to shock, do you let yourself get shot another time to help acclimatise yourself to the pain further? If it is possible for us to avoid suffering then we should. There will be times when some suffering is unavoidable if progress is to be made, i am well aware of this. But unwarranted suffering? No.
I think when you say that I am racist toward animals you mean I am prejudiced against them, well in a way you're right. I value the lives of humans greater than those of animals, if there was a way to preserve both then i would take it. My ideal would undoubtedly benefit animals, but there is no point giving them equal rights to humans as they would not be able to use them. I said that humans are powerful to make a point: humans are different to animals, they have greater malevolence than animals, they have the power to do these things, that will not change, what I want to change is the willingness to do them.
I do not want to see the weak come to harm, but you're deluded yourself if you think that humans do not have more to offer the world than animals do. I am not in favor of animals being culled, or suffering in an unnecessary manner.
What I believe is no act, I was making a point for dramatic effect, but my beliefs remain the same. Attempting to show you that your beliefs are wrong, when I give examples; they tend to be extremes in order to help you understand my point.
Lastly, yes humans are sometimes superior in terms of speed, strength etc - but our greatest asset is our intelligence, with that we can appreciate more and create more. While animals merely exist.
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do you what to know why this world is so fucked up its because of humans. but why the answer is simple its are Intelligence. because humans think they are intelligent they tend to fuck more things up then any other species. and yet we still have the nerve to say we are superior. yes are Intelligence we are smart so we most be superior we are not. hell even a ant is more superior to humans. we don't have a role on this planet and if we do i cant think of it. maybe along time ago there was a need of us but not any more. there are at lest two things to save this planet and that is if we lose are Intelligence or we simple despair. if we go away the planet will be better of. all the things in this world are born for one purpose and that is to keep this plant alive. and were killing it.
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Ambivalent Ecstasy wrote...
I am fortunate enough to live in a temperate climate. You have honestly never seen two males fight over a mate on a nature show? They do not always kill but it happens. I mentioned you saying it was character building because you said that suffering was nature's way of making you stronger. I disagree, if you are shot once, and it hurts a lot the first time, partly due to shock, do you let yourself get shot another time to help acclimatise yourself to the pain further? If it is possible for us to avoid suffering then we should. There will be times when some suffering is unavoidable if progress is to be made, i am well aware of this. But unwarranted suffering? No.Apparantly from what you are saying, i believe i have seen more about animals than you do. Also, please do not mix "fighting" with "killing" humans fight alot more than animals do, and we kill far much more too. Animals never kill for fun, humans do that alot. >>; Humans can go so far as to kill because of a failed relationship, etc. (this is something that needs to be changed for sure, but im just pointing out this fact to get you to understand that humans are no different from animals in this aspect).
If you are shot once you feel pain, the next time you get shot, it wont be that much of a big deal anymore (assuming you survive). Avoiding suffering is 1 way of doing things, its the coward's way. All humans are cowards, we all like to stay in our comfort zones, we do not like the thought of the possibilty of suffering, but those who dont suffer will NEVER truly succeed.
No one goes out of their way to suffer, but i am saying that suffering is like any other experience, something that can benefit you whether you like it or not.
I think when you say that I am racist toward animals you mean I am prejudiced against them, well in a way you're right. I value the lives of humans greater than those of animals, if there was a way to preserve both then i would take it. My ideal would undoubtedly benefit animals, but there is no point giving them equal rights to humans as they would not be able to use them.
I truly meant racist, since all animals are a different race as compared to humans. But this reply of yours has made this my very last reply.
I do not believe in equal rights with other animals as well, its too delusional of an ideal. No way in this world can that happen if we hope to survive, we eat to survive.
I said that humans are powerful to make a point: humans are different to animals, they have greater malevolence than animals, they have the power to do these things, that will not change, what I want to change is the willingness to do them.
Wait what? O_o
I'm sorry, but you want humans to be willing to do malevolent things? isnt that a complete contradiction to your entire argument?
I do not want to see the weak come to harm, but you're deluded yourself if you think that humans do not have more to offer the world than animals do. I am not in favor of animals being culled, or suffering in an unnecessary manner.
Never have i mentioned that humans have less to offer in the world than animals do, I have never mentioned that belief, stating this the second time: stop putting words in my mouth. On the contrary, I believe humans have a potential to offer more to the world than animals will ever do, but its currently not happening.
I have never said you were not in favor of animals being culled, or suffer for unncessary matters, so that line was rather redundant >>;
What I believe is no act, I was making a point for dramatic effect, but my beliefs remain the same. Attempting to show you that your beliefs are wrong, when I give examples; they tend to be extremes in order to help you understand my point.
Once again, i have never stated any of my beliefs in any of the previous posts other than this one, where i am revealing abit of my beliefs coz im not posting anymore after this.
Lastly, yes humans are sometimes superior in terms of speed, strength etc - but our greatest asset is our intelligence, with that we can appreciate more and create more. While animals merely exist.
speed and strenght... are you comparing this to insects? try someone your own size maybe? hell, an ant can carry 10 times it's own weight and survive a fall from a sky scraper (provided it survived the lack of air pressure first).
Speed: try out running a cheetah, a horse or even a dog O_o
Strength: try arm wrestling a gorilla, prepare to lose your arm.
intelligence: the only thing humans excel over other creatures..
Nature is a balance, humans are balanced in terms of nature, humans are skewing this balance for sure, but its not overly devastating. But I agree that humans are in total compilation, the superior race, or we wud not have been up here where we are now, but if you are talking about each individual human WITHOUT the reliance on technology, we are the weakest of any living animals that are our size.
In conclusion to these whole arguments, here is my last few words/tips/advice/evaluation/however-you-want-to-see-it:
You are conceited, and i have stated, it brings delusion and eventually, failure. I think your ideals were pure and nice but with conceit, it will never happen.
Your ideals are flawed, you do not just give a knife a person if it helps him and him stabbing you with that knife make you happy. This does not make you a saint. This is called ignorance, which in turns, harm more people than help, and you wouldn't know it. You need to know who you are helping and how to help them. If you are helping someone who can potentially be the next biggest criminal in the world, you have saved 1 life to slaughter thousands. Dont get me wrong, i never said to abandon him, but help him in a way that would change his ways. Theres so much to say in this topic but given your conceit i doubt ull take this seriously anyway so i wont waste too much time with this topic.
Lastly, do not think the human race is at all superior "sometimes" in terms of speed or strength >>; it might be your fatal mistake some day.
Also, other than small hints of my beliefs, i have NEVER stated any of my beliefs, dont think that i have, read my previous post on what i have been posting all this time. I havent even scratched the surface of my beliefs.
With that said, i bid you farewell, and good luck with your ideals.
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ltdan676 wrote...
do you what to know why this world is so fucked up its because of humans. but why the answer is simple its are Intelligence. because humans think they are intelligent they tend to fuck more things up then any other species. and yet we still have the nerve to say we are superior. yes are Intelligence we are smart so we most be superior we are not. hell even a ant is more superior to humans. we don't have a role on this planet and if we do i cant think of it. maybe along time ago there was a need of us but not any more. there are at lest two things to save this planet and that is if we lose are Intelligence or we simple despair. if we go away the planet will be better of. all the things in this world are born for one purpose and that is to keep this plant alive. and were killing it.sorry if im double posting, but this one is so true.
(this isnt truly accurate to my belief if you must know >>; )
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Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
ltdan676 wrote...
do you what to know why this world is so fucked up its because of humans. but why the answer is simple its are Intelligence. because humans think they are intelligent they tend to fuck more things up then any other species. and yet we still have the nerve to say we are superior. yes are Intelligence we are smart so we most be superior we are not. hell even a ant is more superior to humans. we don't have a role on this planet and if we do i cant think of it. maybe along time ago there was a need of us but not any more. there are at lest two things to save this planet and that is if we lose are Intelligence or we simple despair. if we go away the planet will be better of. all the things in this world are born for one purpose and that is to keep this plant alive. and were killing it.sorry if im double posting, but this one is so true.
(this isnt truly accurate to my belief if you must know >>; )
wait if its so true then how can it not be part of your belief.
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ltdan676 wrote...
Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
ltdan676 wrote...
do you what to know why this world is so fucked up its because of humans. but why the answer is simple its are Intelligence. because humans think they are intelligent they tend to fuck more things up then any other species. and yet we still have the nerve to say we are superior. yes are Intelligence we are smart so we most be superior we are not. hell even a ant is more superior to humans. we don't have a role on this planet and if we do i cant think of it. maybe along time ago there was a need of us but not any more. there are at lest two things to save this planet and that is if we lose are Intelligence or we simple despair. if we go away the planet will be better of. all the things in this world are born for one purpose and that is to keep this plant alive. and were killing it.sorry if im double posting, but this one is so true.
(this isnt truly accurate to my belief if you must know >>; )
wait if its so true then how can it not be part of your belief.
Lol, its part of my belief, but not completely, but i agree with you with ~90% of what you said =P
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Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
ltdan676 wrote...
Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
ltdan676 wrote...
do you what to know why this world is so fucked up its because of humans. but why the answer is simple its are Intelligence. because humans think they are intelligent they tend to fuck more things up then any other species. and yet we still have the nerve to say we are superior. yes are Intelligence we are smart so we most be superior we are not. hell even a ant is more superior to humans. we don't have a role on this planet and if we do i cant think of it. maybe along time ago there was a need of us but not any more. there are at lest two things to save this planet and that is if we lose are Intelligence or we simple despair. if we go away the planet will be better of. all the things in this world are born for one purpose and that is to keep this plant alive. and were killing it.sorry if im double posting, but this one is so true.
(this isnt truly accurate to my belief if you must know >>; )
wait if its so true then how can it not be part of your belief.
Lol, its part of my belief, but not completely, but i agree with you with ~90% of what you said =P
i should not ask this but whats the 10% you disagree with.
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ltdan676 wrote...
Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
ltdan676 wrote...
Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
ltdan676 wrote...
do you what to know why this world is so fucked up its because of humans. but why the answer is simple its are Intelligence. because humans think they are intelligent they tend to fuck more things up then any other species. and yet we still have the nerve to say we are superior. yes are Intelligence we are smart so we most be superior we are not. hell even a ant is more superior to humans. we don't have a role on this planet and if we do i cant think of it. maybe along time ago there was a need of us but not any more. there are at lest two things to save this planet and that is if we lose are Intelligence or we simple despair. if we go away the planet will be better of. all the things in this world are born for one purpose and that is to keep this plant alive. and were killing it.sorry if im double posting, but this one is so true.
(this isnt truly accurate to my belief if you must know >>; )
wait if its so true then how can it not be part of your belief.
Lol, its part of my belief, but not completely, but i agree with you with ~90% of what you said =P
i should not ask this but whats the 10% you disagree with.
well for one thing, i am not certain as to what life is for to begin with. I came up with the mini-conclusion that we live to keep the planet alive, which is your belief as well, but im not entirely certain. Our reason for existance might be something humans can never comprehend, or its just by accident, so its a 50/50 agreement on this =P
The other part is that humans can offer something to this world, but they dont want to. We instead, selfishly employ our intellgence to benefit only ourselves, when we could have benefitted the world and maintained the balance of our ecosystem. But what can i say? selfishness destroys others around us, so its also a 50/50 agreement although i believe humans can offer something, just that they dont want to.
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Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
ltdan676 wrote...
Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
ltdan676 wrote...
Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
ltdan676 wrote...
do you what to know why this world is so fucked up its because of humans. but why the answer is simple its are Intelligence. because humans think they are intelligent they tend to fuck more things up then any other species. and yet we still have the nerve to say we are superior. yes are Intelligence we are smart so we most be superior we are not. hell even a ant is more superior to humans. we don't have a role on this planet and if we do i cant think of it. maybe along time ago there was a need of us but not any more. there are at lest two things to save this planet and that is if we lose are Intelligence or we simple despair. if we go away the planet will be better of. all the things in this world are born for one purpose and that is to keep this plant alive. and were killing it.sorry if im double posting, but this one is so true.
(this isnt truly accurate to my belief if you must know >>; )
wait if its so true then how can it not be part of your belief.
Lol, its part of my belief, but not completely, but i agree with you with ~90% of what you said =P
i should not ask this but whats the 10% you disagree with.
well for one thing, i am not certain as to what life is for to begin with. I came up with the mini-conclusion that we live to keep the planet alive, which is your belief as well, but im not entirely certain. Our reason for existance might be something humans can never comprehend, or its just by accident, so its a 50/50 agreement on this =P
The other part is that humans can offer something to this world, but they dont want to. We instead, selfishly employ our intellgence to benefit only ourselves, when we could have benefitted the world and maintained the balance of our ecosystem. But what can i say? selfishness destroys others around us, so its also a 50/50 agreement although i believe humans can offer something, just that they dont want to.
humans can offer something but we have to do it together. all the species of the world work together to keep things in balance. we need to stop working for are self's and start working for are right to live on this planet. if any other species fads away the system gets messed up and can fell apart. but we are the only ones that if we just one day up and left things would get better.
what can we do to show we have a right to live here with every one.
we not only have got to work with each other but with all the species that live on this earth.
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indeed, sadly its all but a delusional thought, since humans cant even get along with each other to begin with
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Onime-no-Enishi wrote...
Ambivalent Ecstasy wrote...
I am fortunate enough to live in a temperate climate. You have honestly never seen two males fight over a mate on a nature show? They do not always kill but it happens. I mentioned you saying it was character building because you said that suffering was nature's way of making you stronger. I disagree, if you are shot once, and it hurts a lot the first time, partly due to shock, do you let yourself get shot another time to help acclimatise yourself to the pain further? If it is possible for us to avoid suffering then we should. There will be times when some suffering is unavoidable if progress is to be made, i am well aware of this. But unwarranted suffering? No.Apparantly from what you are saying, i believe i have seen more about animals than you do. Also, please do not mix "fighting" with "killing" humans fight alot more than animals do, and we kill far much more too. Animals never kill for fun, humans do that alot. >>; Humans can go so far as to kill because of a failed relationship, etc. (this is something that needs to be changed for sure, but im just pointing out this fact to get you to understand that humans are no different from animals in this aspect).
If you are shot once you feel pain, the next time you get shot, it wont be that much of a big deal anymore (assuming you survive). Avoiding suffering is 1 way of doing things, its the coward's way. All humans are cowards, we all like to stay in our comfort zones, we do not like the thought of the possibilty of suffering, but those who dont suffer will NEVER truly succeed.
No one goes out of their way to suffer, but i am saying that suffering is like any other experience, something that can benefit you whether you like it or not.
I think when you say that I am racist toward animals you mean I am prejudiced against them, well in a way you're right. I value the lives of humans greater than those of animals, if there was a way to preserve both then i would take it. My ideal would undoubtedly benefit animals, but there is no point giving them equal rights to humans as they would not be able to use them.
I truly meant racist, since all animals are a different race as compared to humans. But this reply of yours has made this my very last reply.
I do not believe in equal rights with other animals as well, its too delusional of an ideal. No way in this world can that happen if we hope to survive, we eat to survive.
I said that humans are powerful to make a point: humans are different to animals, they have greater malevolence than animals, they have the power to do these things, that will not change, what I want to change is the willingness to do them.
Wait what? O_o
I'm sorry, but you want humans to be willing to do malevolent things? isnt that a complete contradiction to your entire argument?
I do not want to see the weak come to harm, but you're deluded yourself if you think that humans do not have more to offer the world than animals do. I am not in favor of animals being culled, or suffering in an unnecessary manner.
Never have i mentioned that humans have less to offer in the world than animals do, I have never mentioned that belief, stating this the second time: stop putting words in my mouth. On the contrary, I believe humans have a potential to offer more to the world than animals will ever do, but its currently not happening.
I have never said you were not in favor of animals being culled, or suffer for unncessary matters, so that line was rather redundant >>;
What I believe is no act, I was making a point for dramatic effect, but my beliefs remain the same. Attempting to show you that your beliefs are wrong, when I give examples; they tend to be extremes in order to help you understand my point.
Once again, i have never stated any of my beliefs in any of the previous posts other than this one, where i am revealing abit of my beliefs coz im not posting anymore after this.
Lastly, yes humans are sometimes superior in terms of speed, strength etc - but our greatest asset is our intelligence, with that we can appreciate more and create more. While animals merely exist.
speed and strenght... are you comparing this to insects? try someone your own size maybe? hell, an ant can carry 10 times it's own weight and survive a fall from a sky scraper (provided it survived the lack of air pressure first).
Speed: try out running a cheetah, a horse or even a dog O_o
Strength: try arm wrestling a gorilla, prepare to lose your arm.
intelligence: the only thing humans excel over other creatures..
Nature is a balance, humans are balanced in terms of nature, humans are skewing this balance for sure, but its not overly devastating. But I agree that humans are in total compilation, the superior race, or we wud not have been up here where we are now, but if you are talking about each individual human WITHOUT the reliance on technology, we are the weakest of any living animals that are our size.
In conclusion to these whole arguments, here is my last few words/tips/advice/evaluation/however-you-want-to-see-it:
You are conceited, and i have stated, it brings delusion and eventually, failure. I think your ideals were pure and nice but with conceit, it will never happen.
Your ideals are flawed, you do not just give a knife a person if it helps him and him stabbing you with that knife make you happy. This does not make you a saint. This is called ignorance, which in turns, harm more people than help, and you wouldn't know it. You need to know who you are helping and how to help them. If you are helping someone who can potentially be the next biggest criminal in the world, you have saved 1 life to slaughter thousands. Dont get me wrong, i never said to abandon him, but help him in a way that would change his ways. Theres so much to say in this topic but given your conceit i doubt ull take this seriously anyway so i wont waste too much time with this topic.
Lastly, do not think the human race is at all superior "sometimes" in terms of speed or strength >>; it might be your fatal mistake some day.
Also, other than small hints of my beliefs, i have NEVER stated any of my beliefs, dont think that i have, read my previous post on what i have been posting all this time. I havent even scratched the surface of my beliefs.
With that said, i bid you farewell, and good luck with your ideals.
Wow were you even reading what I wrote? I said that humanity was capable of terrible things, right now they also have the willingness to follow through with their cruelty, that is what I want to change......come on if you had any sense you would have seen that. You're just being obstinate, as you have been from the start. Your call but based on what I have read from you, it is you who seems childish and conceited.
As for your "animal superiority" you never said "animals that are your size" before your final post. I took what you said literally as you earlier described yourself as a "literalist" (lol). I feel I was being perfectly fair to you and your arguments, despite their obvious problems.
Also, other than small hints of my beliefs, i have NEVER stated any of my beliefs, dont think that i have, read my previous post on what i have been posting all this time. I havent even scratched the surface of my beliefs.
I was wondering, why you felt the need to say that; rather than actually elaborate on your beliefs yourself, what is the problem? I'm prepared to listen, and I won't treat you with the same disrespect you have shown me I assure you :)
You should also take note that my comments regarding humans having more to offer the world than animals were an attempt to inform you why humans were getting preferential treatment over animals, as you apparently had a problem with this.
As for your comments on my statement regarding the knife, my main point; which you have unsurprisingly missed. Is that each human has only his own life and can do whatever he wishes with it, he does not however have the right to take away another's life. Even if a person has taken a life away from you or someone you are close to. How can you say that what I choose to do is ignorant when you clearly do not know what I know?. If you don't understand then just say so; I'll be happy to explain in simpler terms to make it easier for you (though i felt it was fairly clear as it was).
As i understood it racist meant the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. You were probably going for something along the lines of prejudice based on species? Yes I do, there has to be a line drawn and I believe that if animals had the same capabilities of humans they would do similar things.
You say that animals don't enjoy killing? Are you trying to tell me that when a lion makes a kill it's body does not produce endorphins? Telling it that it has done a good thing. Something that it enjoys, a cat plays with a mouse before killing it, partly because it enjoys doing so and partly because it is good practice for hunting. The difference between animals and psychopaths is that a human psychopath has the potential to cause a lot more harm than a lion could.
I would help the person who "could be the next biggest criminal in the world" because it's about doing what is right and setting an example regardless of who follows it. Have you got that now? :)
(Sorry about the tone in this btw, just catching the vibe from your last post ;) )
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God damn, does someone want to sum up the last two pages so I don't have to spend an hour reading them?
I did catch one thing - humans have no purpose on this planet. I used to have a friend who would say that humans have only one purpose, to pass on their seed. Personally, I think both are wrong and right at the same time.
Humans have no purpose on this earth, but neither do any other animals or plants. How do bees help the world? They keep plants alive, but what do plants do? How do plants help the world? Without going into a long chain, here's the point - things exist for other things, and if one disappears, they all disappear (that's the idea, at least), but so what? What if they all disappeared? Would the world end? Well, this planet might, but would the universe end? No. So what's the point of all of it? Easy, there is no point. So humans are as worthless as every other species on this planet.
And though humans (and every other animal) do instinctively want to breed, not every human feels an overwhelming need to do so. So while humans feel the need to pass on their seed, they all don't feel that they have to. If they do, or if they don't, it all ends up the same anyway. We're all equally worthless.
I did catch one thing - humans have no purpose on this planet. I used to have a friend who would say that humans have only one purpose, to pass on their seed. Personally, I think both are wrong and right at the same time.
Humans have no purpose on this earth, but neither do any other animals or plants. How do bees help the world? They keep plants alive, but what do plants do? How do plants help the world? Without going into a long chain, here's the point - things exist for other things, and if one disappears, they all disappear (that's the idea, at least), but so what? What if they all disappeared? Would the world end? Well, this planet might, but would the universe end? No. So what's the point of all of it? Easy, there is no point. So humans are as worthless as every other species on this planet.
And though humans (and every other animal) do instinctively want to breed, not every human feels an overwhelming need to do so. So while humans feel the need to pass on their seed, they all don't feel that they have to. If they do, or if they don't, it all ends up the same anyway. We're all equally worthless.
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ShaggyJebus wrote...
God damn, does someone want to sum up the last two pages so I don't have to spend an hour reading them?^This...
Sounds like an interesting Topic, but reading all of your posts sure is tough..
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ShaggyJebus wrote...
God damn, does someone want to sum up the last two pages so I don't have to spend an hour reading them?I did catch one thing - humans have no purpose on this planet. I used to have a friend who would say that humans have only one purpose, to pass on their seed. Personally, I think both are wrong and right at the same time.
Humans have no purpose on this earth, but neither do any other animals or plants. How do bees help the world? They keep plants alive, but what do plants do? How do plants help the world? Without going into a long chain, here's the point - things exist for other things, and if one disappears, they all disappear (that's the idea, at least), but so what? What if they all disappeared? Would the world end? Well, this planet might, but would the universe end? No. So what's the point of all of it? Easy, there is no point. So humans are as worthless as every other species on this planet.
And though humans (and every other animal) do instinctively want to breed, not every human feels an overwhelming need to do so. So while humans feel the need to pass on their seed, they all don't feel that they have to. If they do, or if they don't, it all ends up the same anyway. We're all equally worthless.
lol without summarizing it all, you are already leaning more towards my point of view xD lol (very much so in fact @_@)
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to ShaggyJebus we all have a purpose.we just don't do it so it does not matter. plants die then well everything will die the world cant live without them. if we want to live we need to help out as well. all animals play a big role in this system we are the only ones that keep it down. we are the only ones that dont have a place in this chain.
if you look out into the universe you will see many other planets that are well dead. maybe at one point they were like us but they cut the chain. the universe has nothing to do with us we just have to worry about are own back yard. and by saying we are all worthless it sounds like you have given up on it all.
if you look out into the universe you will see many other planets that are well dead. maybe at one point they were like us but they cut the chain. the universe has nothing to do with us we just have to worry about are own back yard. and by saying we are all worthless it sounds like you have given up on it all.
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@ltdan676: You could take a step to make the world a better place and kill yourself.
@Shaggy: I wouldn't worry too much about all that shenanigans on the past two pages. Some of it might be worth reading, but most of it isn't.
@Shaggy: I wouldn't worry too much about all that shenanigans on the past two pages. Some of it might be worth reading, but most of it isn't.
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Dante1214 wrote...
@ltdan676: You could take a step to make the world a better place and kill yourself.Itdan676 wrote...
if we go away the planet will be better of.Itdan676 wrote...
all the things in this world are born for one purpose and that is to keep this plant alive.(Don't mind my tone in this post. I am an asshole to all the people who want me to be wiped off of this planet.)
