idmb22 wrote...
@Pandara: I just wanted to give you my opinion. No offense or anything. :D
1st Point:
The difference between Top and Jungler is not really the pressence, because a Top Lane, if you stomp, have much more pressence than the Jungler and normally you force Mid and Jungler to gank you together with Top, making your team have less pressure and easy Drakes.
I have seen some Diamond I people stomp and carry hard from Top lane just by split pushing hard that lane while his team pushed Mid or Bot. The only times I saw some of them fail were when their teams were stomped hard. In thoses cases, they could do nothing at all.
The main difference is that as the Jungler you need your lanes to help you help them (yeah, like Supports). If they don't set up ganks for you to actually gank, you are screwed. If they dont ward to avoid counter ganks, you are screwed, because you will get counter ganked. If they don't pressure or force objectives, you are screwed. The pressence in the map is good, but if your lanes (all of them) lose, then sorry you are screwed because jungler don't scale that well into mid and late game due to the lack of lv/farm and items, that is why they build tankyness and utility and normally CC Jungler are better, because they are going to be behind lanes in every aspect so they need to bring something to the team. I believe you know this already, but just saying. :P
On he other hand, if everything goes well, then you will probably win the game, but that happens no matter if you are Top or Jungler. So far, for what I have seen, I have seen more success from players running a lane like Top or Mid than Jungling, ADC or Supporting. The reason is because of how is the meta right now, not because anything else. A fed bruiser is extrmeley strong, same for Assassins or APCs. Instead if an ADC is fed or a Support or a Jungler, unless they can do damage and survive enough, they won't win teamfights.
2nd Point:
About your theory, well, I am not going to say you are wrong or right, because I dont hold absolute truth, but in my opinion, you are overall right, except on one thing: the barrier on Bronze/Silver is mainly luck AND bad decision making, not skill.
However, in my opinion the barrier in Bronze/Silver is mainly luck than any other thing, since in SoloQ you can play really bad and get carried hard, where the other way around, if your team has no clue, it won't matter if you are fed or not, the enemy team will be more fed than you do. Why? Well, simple:
- If you fed, but your team gets fed, then you have 4 players fed + 1 carried.
- If you get fed, but your team feds, then you have 1 player fed + 4 carried.
I think it is pretty simple to say, which team will win in each scenario. Of course throws exist for a reason, but we are speaking of people... People make mistakes, even at Challenger level.
3rd Point:
Regarding the Roles, I can say from own experience, not every Role is for everyone. I have tried Mid and I have failed, same for ADC. I am not good in those roles for whatever reason and I never feel confortable. I feel really confortable Supporting, Jungling... and in a less way Top (probably due to my expertise in 3v3 now).
4th Point:
I more or less agree with you here. I agree that if you play something has no idea how to play against, you will probably stomp or, at least, win the lane (or whatever) because the other player doesn't know how to counter you. However, that will last for maybe a couple of days? (less maybe?) until someone else copies you and starts spreading or your champ becomes the popular ban because it stomps.
I don't agree that Diamond player adapt better, I would say, they are just more careful overall, which is different. A Bronze/Silver will just tunell you if he sees you low HP... imagine you are Tryndamere, low HP and full rage... that guy will die because he forget about your Ulti, your Q, your Passive Crit Chance, your W, your E, etc.
Of course, this is my opinion, but I wanted to bring up the debate. :D
I used to play Shyvana a lot before Worlds because I just enjoy playing her and I normally stomped enemy junglers (I still play her a lot). Then, Worlds came in, Meteos showed his playstyle and now Shyvana is FOTM and everyone is playing her, even Diamond players who told me that she was "bullshit" are now like "She is freaking good man, you should try her" and I am like "Oh rly? Don't tell me.", but whatever, people just move around what they see in the "Pro-Scene". xD
Ya I agree with the top lane vs jungle game pressure idea, but I'd like to add how one sided top lanes usually go, it always either ends in one person beating the other to the ground, and it's the most snowbally lane that requires no outside interference . While mid can still come back easily during dragon fights/bot ganks and have a jungler easily hold ur lane and keep it from pushing (resulting in a much less xp loss) you wont fall behind when you try to come back/get fed by roaming. Top felt too one sided for me, because I didn't want ganks when I fell behind, which is usually the right thing to do since all junglers jungle with the mindset of "I will snowball lanes with the biggest carry potential and only have to gank for lanes that fell behind if it's still easy enough to 2v1 and perhaps 2v2 if there's a counter gank comming.
Also, with your statement about being careful, I couldn't help but interpret that as the same thing as adapting? Yes diamond players play careful because they are analyzing the situation, usually to see what the enemy laner is maxing first so they could determine when to harass and how long they should commit for.
And with the comment about how playing something no one has seen before will become old in a few days I cannot help but say that was false in all cases I tried to seriously play a champ in a different way. My Lee Sin top was practically stomp-happy for a good 400 ranked games (You can check my profile and see just how much I played him before I stopped since everyone knew his burst potential, and since pro players started playing him a lot making most people fear his presence) and my tiger udyr jungle with dorans start into spirit golem/phage rush for insane early game pressure. Even till now I can easily decide which lane to camp as udyr and snowball that lane so hard that I get the leverage to ignore ganking for one of my other lane entirely.