Let's Flame Nintendo!

Is anyone other than me worried about the direction console game controls, and in extension, game design, are headed? I mean, first the Nintendo Wii came out with it's "revolutionary" motion sensor WiiMote. All of the sudden, games like Wii Sports became so fucking popular that it would make Michael Jackson before went all pedobear on the world.

This is probably going to draw flames, but I fucking hate the Wii with a passion. If it was a tree, I'd burn it with a flamethrower. If it was a baby, I'd stick it in the blender. If it was an old grandma on Geritol, I'd run her over with a Suburban at 70 mph.

The reason: Thus far, motion control has shown that it cannot replicate the controls that are required for a great game. I cannot name a SINGLE truly good game/experience other than Super Mario Galaxy on the Wii. The system is tailored towards the "casual" gamer, and by casual I mean the 60+ year old grandma who's worried her little grandchild will play the Murder Simulator that is Flower on the PS3. So now we have a slew of mind-numbingly simple point-and-waggle games or games that had some potential but could not reach that due to the completely lacking control scheme of the WiiMote. Not to mention EVERY SINGLE GAME that requires a fucking shake! Is it part of a contract or something that you have to include that absolutely ridiculous maneuver into every game for the Wii?!

So why am I posting this? I just finished watching the 2009 E3 highlights (lowlights?) and couldn't help but notice a certain little thing called Project Natal. My first thought was "You have got to be fucking kidding me". Apparently, the success of the Wii (at least in the market) has convinced Microsoft that motion sensing technology is the "wave of the future", causing them to take on this most likely huge project. Sony isn't quite there yet, with their Playstation Eye, as far as I know, only to be used for video editing, but they'll get there; of this I have no doubt.

Has it never occurred to them that Nintendo has completely and utterly alienated its hardcore gamer fanbase? Maybe because of its lower market price it was able to sell significantly more units than XBOX 360s and PS3s? Or maybe because it's not a real gaming system, but a toy that basically combines a whole crapton of arcade/kiddy games into one package, appealing to both the really young kids and the parents concerned about their kids playing GTA IV (aka Murder Simulator)? I mean, when a console has to turn a game like Dead Space into a rail shooter to accommodate its controls, there's something wrong.

If the future is to be motion sensing gaming, then maybe I'm just close-minded. Maybe controllers like the WiiMote or something like Project Natal can actually produce a standout game on a consistent basis. But right now, I feel that this bodes for dark times ahead.

I'd really like to hear your opinions on the Wii and the general direction CONSOLE (not PC) games are headed. Actually, feel free to post anything you think relates to this at all.

Flame shield up

I'm not particularly please with Nintendo myself, but they made the best decision for their continuing survival. Nintendo very well might not exist now if it had to compete against Sony and Microsoft for the same general customer base. Thinking about it that, way I find it hard to be displeased with Nintendo.

I have a 360 and a Wii, but my Wii collects dust probably 10 months out of the year, but I was one of those ones who fell for the gimmicky controls. I thought it was the greatest thing ever for a couple of weeks until I became sick of it entirely. Casual games just aren't my cup of tea, but Nintendo did what they thought was best.

Although it feels like Super Mario Galaxy 2 reeks of desperation on their part to rekindle with their hardcore audience. I really hope no one falls for the bait. XD

The major problem as of now with the Wii is that Nintendo has stopped quality assurance on it's games. They're letting anything and everything onto the platform because they're afraid that by alienating third party developers they'll lose their support. Anyone remember the little gold sticker on every game up to and part way through the Gamecube era?

This little bastard used to be on every game ever made by Nintendo. Games that didn't make the grade were trashed, or made better. Now they let anything on as long as it keeps their developers happy. This is also the reason for the shitty games, as the developers know what makes money, family games.

Also, you must have missed Playstations new motion capture controllers with the PSeye.

Yeah, unfortunately they are all jumping on the boat now in order to leech off of Nintendo's universal success. I definitely miss the good ol' days with Nintendo. I think Microsoft and Sony should just continue to compete with each other, no reason to rain on Nintendo's parade, or stoop to their level, depending on which side of the fence you are on.

Yeah let's flame Nintendo for being innovative!
Trying new things suck anyway, like when they put a joystick on their N64 controller and everyone else started copying that, or the rumble pack for that matter, what assoles.

D-pad ftw! AMIRITE?!

Innovation is a great idea. The effects of it, though, may not be so great. The WiiMote does not offer anywhere NEAR the amount of control that the XBOX 360 or PS3 controllers give, and thus severely cuts down on the ability for games like God of War, Dead Space, or any type of simulation to be successful. On top of that, the actual motion sensor of the Wii can be quite spazzy.

What we've got now is a "console" that has a whole bunch of games that can loosely be defined as pure fun. A lot of people say that's what games are supposed to be. But that's not the way I see it. I feel that the Wii has taken the current ideology of video game design and thrown it out the window. Hooray! Innovation! I've got no problems with that. Breaking the mold is something we as gamers see too little of nowadays. But the problem, as I see it, is that they've brought back the design approach of the 8-bit and 16-bit era. Again, a lot of people would say that those times were when the truly great games were released, but seriously, those games were the Dark Ages of gaming.

At the time, games like the Legend of Zelda and Final Fantasy were wonderfully innovative. However, take those games and put them under modern evaluation, and the only thing that they stand out in is nostalgia. But I'm getting off track here.

Back in the days of the NES and Atari 2600, followed by the SNES and the Genesis (no the Atari 5200 does not count), we saw an ever improving library of games thanks to plenty of innovation. The thing was, though, that the controls kept improving. We could do more things with the controllers of the SNES and Genesis than those of the NES or Atari.

The Wii, while a promising concept at first, has developed a control scheme almost entirely around motion sensitivity. The problem with this is that there are many actions which can't be done through a motion controller.

Say you wanted to play an Armored Core game. There is absolutely no way that you could pull it off with a WiiMote unless the game was so completely dumbed down that it's practically not the same game. Motion sensing as an individual control scheme is hampered by these problems. Project Natal looks like it wants to correct the limitations of the Wii, but from the videos I saw, trying to play a mecha game or something of that ilk using that kind of technology is going to be pure hell. Due to the most likely immense technology involved, games using that technology will probably be much more expensive as well.

Motion sensing on its own has not produced good results, IMO, but that's not to say that it's a complete and utter failure. The sixaxis control of the PS3 has limited success, thanks mostly because it's part of a much more complete control system.

As I said before, motion sensing in gaming may be the future of gaming, but I've yet to see a significant trend of games that shows me that the technology allows for good games to be made.

In short, I applaud your effort Nintendo, but I hate the final product.

im kinda torn between the two here. yes for one, the is getting annoying as shit as time goes by, and not purely for the fact that the motion capture isnt as good as it should be or that it requires the same motions over and over [because really that could be said about any controller ever] but more because the developers all decided that motion capture was so amazing that anything with it is solid fucking gold. When designers decide to be a good game by actually making a good damn game [for instance Mario Galaxy, No More Heroes, SSBB] its turns out well.

TL;DR i blame developers for lack of effort, not nintendo for anything anything with a waggle to be shipped out.

You make a good point, but I'd like to point out that those three games which you mentioned all have incredibly simplistic controls.

However, you say the developers are to blame, which I agree to an extent, but I think that Nintendo deserves part of the blame as well. Not everybody know how to make a great game with limited controls, and the controller itself is a limitation for developers.

Not everyone universally agrees on what is and is not good innovation. I fail to see where motion controllers are going to come into play any time soon, especially when Nintendo doesn't even have full control over it.

By no means will I flame nintendo but Sony is much closer to my heart. I believe that wii's interface, to be able to support the "motion detector" feature has sacrificed much of what games really ahve to offer. There have been accidents in playing wii and here's one of them



it's just not safe sometimes

or this...

The Wii is not for single player. The Wii is purely for a large group of people who are getting (if not already) completely plastered. Nothing comes close to Mario Party and some other mini-game games on the Wii when you are drunk. :roll:

Why is that a bad thing? What you've essentially stated there is "These games are good, and easy to pick up thanks to their simple control scheme. This is a bad thing."

Which I don't quite understand.

I agree that there are a large variety of needless and intensely frustating waggle-thons for babies on the Wii, but then there's also Metroid Prime. Or The Conduit. Or No More Heroes. Or Brawl. All of which have simple but, and this is the important part, enjoyable and intuitive control schemes. Simplicity is not a defect. Several developers have proved that the Wii controller is not a limitation, this just needs realising by the rest of them.

Personally, I think Nintendo should be commended for creating what is essentially an entirely new market. All you have to do is keep an eye out for the diamonds in the rough. The Wii is only a gimmick if you make it one, and that's what most developers are doing.

The thing that annoys me is not the Wii has no potential, but that it hasn't realised it yet.

Pog, I disagree with you on some things. For one, I think you are confusing the potential of the wii and the games it has released.

The controls are simple, yeah. But are they bad? I don't think so. I think it's a plus that they are simple. And games like brawl and galaxy have proved that it can make for some very enjoyable gaming experiences.

The problem is that very few companies have realized this and are still blinded by the motion capture crap. Wich is pretty sucky for us avid players.

I still hope that more great games will come. I just wonder when.... *sigh*

*sighs*

Ho boy, not the 'toy' line crap again. This thread was quite unnecessary. Even those of you who hate the Wii should have heard all this crap enough by now to be tired of it. I'll be glad when this generation is over, then I can enjoy the usual retardation of the "Nintendo is just for kids" line all over again.


Come now, you can't expect Super Mario Space-Time Continuum to appear magically out the air. This is the first direct Super Mario sequel in how long (not counting the stuff on the side)? It's certainly not worse than Left 4 Dead 2, which you proclaimed an interest in earlier.


Interface? Are you referring to the way the Wiimote detects motion or something else?

But they do have full control over it, have you even played games like SMG and MP3? Perfect control.
(not gonna say that it's 1:1 though, cuz that it's certainly not)

Whether you like Nintendo's innovations or not is up to you, but you can't deny that they're the only ones actually having the balls to try something new instead of just upgrading graphics and waiting for someone else to try new concepts and wait and see if they get popular before jumping on that train.

Another thing i can't understand is the people who's flamming Nintendo because of Wii's enormous success which lead to Sony and Microsoft started doing their own "casual" motion-stuff, wouldn't it be alot less retarted to actually flame MS & Sony? It's not like Nintendo asked them to copy their stuff (like usual)..

That depends on the individual. I didn't really care for Super Mario Galaxy. I own it, but I never beat it. It did feel like a return to form, but something about it just didn't sit right with me, and a sequel just sounds like a bad idea to me.

I'm interested in L4D2 but not SMG2. Nothing wrong with that.



If that were the case they wouldn't have to keep releasing extensions for the bloody thing. Sure they tried something new, but I don't like it, so sue me. I don't want to play casual games with gimmicky controls. I want my RPGs and FPSs with my standard controller.

As for Microsoft and Sony I do blame them for that. They are much better off trying to compete over the same customer fanbase and leave Nintendo to their fanbase.

Man, when did Fakku turned into NGG?

Anyways, "hardcore" gamers are the reason why Nintendo went the way they did. They completely ignored the Gamecube (which was a pretty awesome console) and left Nintendo stranded for death.

Also, Nintendo is a business. Their main purpose is to make money. They couldn't care less what butthurt "hardcore" gamers say about them. While Sony is lagging behind in third place, Nintendo is rolling around in money right now.

Also, not every Nintendo game requires you to use motion controls. Also, you know the sad thing that most people don't know about the Wiimote and nunchuk? It has the same number of buttons as the Gamecube and Classic controller.

Also, I have over 15 Wii games and none of them have the horrible motion controls you people keep mentioning. Man, you guys must be playing some horrible games.



Wait, releasing sequel to Game of the Year games is a bad thing now? When the fuck did that happened? It's okay for Microsoft to release Halo multiple times but when Nintendo does the same thing, they get criticized? I don't get gamers sometimes.

Also contrary to popular belief, Mario has never been considered a "hardcore" franchisee.



Here's the reason why everyone should be more excited about Galaxy 2 than L4D2:

Galaxy 2:



Left 4 Dead 2:



I'm just saying.

I never said you needed to like it, but what i said remains true.
And "keep releasing extensions for it"? You mean the Wii motion plus? That's one thing, not several.

Also, epic lulz at you prefering to play FPS's with a standard controller instead of the Wiimote who's been proven vastly superior for games in that genre (see MP3).

To quote IGN on the matter

I personally couldn't disagree more. I hate using the Wiimote for shooters. I've tried it with both Red Steel and MP3. MP3 wasn't that bad, but I didn't think it was that great, and Red Steel is atrocious.

As for the Wii Motion Plus, I might have exaggerated, but the fact that it exists in the first place shows to me that Nintendo doesn't even understand the technology themselves fully.

And personally I don't take what IGN has to say, but with a grain of salt. 90% of these gaming sites are full of garbage, rumors and biased opinions.

Edit: Okay, I'm done. I'm starting to get aggravated for one reason or another, and then I have a nasty habit of turning it ugly. I'm gonna ignore this topic from now on. ^_^;;

Well if you prefer the regular controller then shit, go for it, i on the other hand hate it, the precision is pretty much always shit and akward as hell, can't stand that sort of stuff in games that require just that in order to be enjoyable.

Red Steel is like the worst game i've ever played, what a piece f shit.


They understand it, they just wanted to get more of our money like usual.
But i agree with that the Wii Motion Plus is what the regular Wiimote should've been like from the start.


I just took IGN since it was the first thing that came into my head when i was gonna search for a quote, pretty much all sites agree on that the Wiimote is the next best thing, after mouse + keyboard, for fps's.


But we only just got started