Square Enix may die... hmm... umm...

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/11/27/news-another-mistake-like-ff14-would-destroy-square

I don't know how to feel honestly. I love final fantasy from 1-10 (tactics ps and gba) and a couple other IP's but... I can't really feel like I'd have any empty feeling afterwards. Most everyone from their company, that I care for, either left already or could survive without them. Square Enix and their investors have relied too much on their fan's loyalty to keep them afloat but that was a costly error they repeated too many times. They seem to refuse to grow/learn, fixated in their own pride.



Now as to the video.

"Won't make a mistake again..."
Really now? >_>

"I think it would have been good if they tried seeing what happened if they turned World of Warcraft into Final Fantasy", -Naoki Yoshida ((last minute) Producer of Final Fantasy XIV Online)

and

"So because they tried only to make something that was 'different from final fantasy 11' they ended up with not much of anything" Naoki Yoshida

and

"They should have said, 'Hey you, go play WoW for a year (for inspiration). Unless you are a genius, you can not make something completely new from nothing." Naoki Yoshida.

His solution is to go for inspiration from a game almost 10 years old and in a decline, and yet overlooks what makes it strive in exchange for the belief that cloning would be enough (really does not observe the mmo market).

Upset at the previous head for trying to build something "different" than the previous work. I can see he is definitely the type who values proven process over innovation/originality, but yet lacks the foresight to truly understand why the proven process worked.

This I found funny, he insults his own company, stating that the company that once created "apparent genius" productions, are not capable of doing that anymore. As well, that Square should settle for emulating it's previous titles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naoki_Yoshida

Looking at his track record, I am more than confident that he can save square... >_> (I said it with a straight face!)

On a side note, they(Square Enix) said the reason for their fiscal loss was Tomb Raider, Hitman, and Sleeping Dogs. Even though those three games sold more than 7 million copies combined, Square Enix wants to blame any financial struggles on those because they fell short of "Expectation".

The sales numbers of 14...

http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-11-15/analysis_hurried_ffxiv_resulted_in_a_big_failure.shtml

They can blame other titles, but there main focus is Final Fantasy, where they put most of there investments into, and it bombed badly. I would assume, that the pay-4-play model that they have been trying to rip from WoW was intended to make up their losses, but only sunk them further in.

To be honest, I kinda want to see them sink. They made great games in the past, but now it feels like they don't know what they're doing with themselves. Final Fantasy XIII was just hallways and corridors, whereas XIII-2 was (supposedly) the complete opposite due to everybody not liking XIII being super linear. XIV is just a complete mess that still isn't sorted out, and XIII Versus is still in development hell. They also said that Dragon Quest was "dead in the West", meaning Nintendo got a lot of profit from porting the recent Dragon Quest games that could've helped Square Enix.

I'd like to see a Square Enix game that is both fun and provides good storytelling return. Although they've already broken any trust plenty of fans had in them, so chances are that it'll flop as much as a Final Fantasy game can and then say that consumers aren't interested.

I don't think it's possible for them to make a Final Fantasy with the feeling the old ones gave, those writers/directors are long gone (since 10, 9). They were of great quality but square f'ed up letting them go.

I really don't think the current people in charge are capable of finding and nurturing that kind of quality. A new company will have to come out to usurp Squares position in the gaming community.

They didn't rip or try to rip the model off of WoW, subscriptions have been around in MMORPGs since the days of Ultima, Meridian 59 and Lineage.

I don't think Square Enix is going to "die" anytime soon, Sony will probably bail them out if they go too far down the hole, especially now that FFXV is going to be the main exclusive available for the up and coming PS4. FFXV is using an open-world gameplay model with just as much content as Skyrim and supposedly cities as active as Assassin Creed's, they're catering towards the game play models that people want to see and it will do quite well for them.

They're also revising FFIV, we'll see where that takes them.

Sorry my mistake, I miss spoke, I didn't mean to insinuate that they were specifically ripping from WoW. Just the way the producer speaks makes me think that most everything that will be created, now, in terms of mmo's, revolving around the WoW model. I ended up typing out those thoughts.

My opinion of a Sony bailout.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/10/business/la-fi-ct-sony-earns-20120510

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/01/sony-posts-net-loss-of-198-million-for-q2-playstation-profits/

The vita is struggling against smart phones, seems the profit stabilized and grew a little, but still suffer. Most of Sony's money will be going into the PS4, if it becomes another bust/low sell like the Vita, a bailout is unlikely. As well, I really wonder if Sony still has that much faith in Square. Square will have to put out the remake of 14 before the end of the year (their not making any profit(I think) outside of it), if it fails again, it will be bad.

Is there a "definite" release date for XV, or is it up in the air like versus XIII?

Honestly, if Square Enix wanted to make buzz, they would announce ANYTHING for Versus, and possibly SOMETHING for Kingdom Hearts 3. Square Enix keeps just remaking the same old games and making mobile games. I mean, sure a remake is fine every now and then, but they have beat Final Fantasy IV with a stick so many times. They just need to go ahead and stop with that. People keep crying for a VII remake, if they wanted to make easy money, remake that.

I think they stopped working on that a long time ago but can't officially drop it after all the hype they made about it, as well, all the possible money they put into it. I doubt anyone's touched the game for awhile now. Worst case scenario they may have to restart the whole project which will cost a lot of money and their avoiding that. (It was made with a "now" currently old engine on a old console for them. Since they are already working on PS4).

The longer it waits the more I don't want to see it come out. I'm half expecting a Alien Colonial Marines, Duke Nukem Forever, Kameo, ect failure.

You left out "Too Human"

No, the thing is, on Kotaku WAAAY back(I'd say September), there was a report from an insider in SE that said that Versus was done. The next day SE made a big announcement saying it was still around and that they were working on it. That was the last of that. The only thing I can think of is during the unveil for PS4 SE said there were big things on the way for Final Fantasy and to wait for E3, but SE are the kings of overhyping.

But 11 is the best Final Fantasy ever made.

XIV and lack of big releases is what's killing them. They're just not the same company they were 10 years ago.

Honestly I don't get what the big appeal is though, my friend, awhile back, tried to explain it to me. All I got out of his over hyper explanation was that it's darker (story) and sand box like. Is it that interesting? Considering how over hyped vs the quality of squares writers/directors, I'm expecting a loud wailing from the rpg community upon it's release.

The new versus is FFXV, Square has already entered into a contractual agreement with Sony to make it a PS4 exclusive. I imagine they will have it ready by or shortly after it's release, especially considering it's already been in development for the last 5000 years.

Whether or not Sony still holds faith in Square isn't even a question, they would be selling off their shares or preparing to buy them out if that were the case and definitely not making contractual agreements with them.

Sony's reach extends much further than just gaming consoles and handheld devices, they see revenues over $80 million each year and hold over $160 million in assets, about $52 million more than Microsoft. While they've certainly been seeing a loss in profits over the last few years, it's nothing too major. Square Enix is a small company by global standards, only seeing revenues of around $1.5 million each year, bailing them out would be like throwing a dime into a wishing well for Sony.

Square Enix isn't going away anytime soon.

As small as that may be, if square ends up bankrupt once, there no proof bringing it back will return profits. But if it is as small as you state (in there eyes), the argument can also be used in reverse as to why Sony doesn't touch the shares in Square, they could equally be waiting to see if Square can pull itself out of a decline. Rather they sell off their shares now or later it wouldn't change them from being a "drop in the bucket", "dime in the wishing well".

Ic, so XV will be versus. I do wish that Square would get it's act together, here hoping it's midway decent.

Which is exactly why I added the point that they just made a contractual agreement with them, which means they must obviously have some faith that FFXV is going to do well and that Square will eventually see a decent profit now or in the future. I can almost guarantee their continued support of Square even if FFXV fails. Final Fantasy is in no way a small part of what made the Playstation & Playstation 2 a huge success, if they don't buy them out or bail them out someone else will and it is not feasible for them to lose one of the biggest gaming franchises in history to one of their competitors, it wouldn't bode well for their own Playstation 4. Both companies have a very, very long history with each other and I just don't see Sony giving up on Square just because they haven't done well for the past couple of years.



Honestly this I don't understand, just because Square has made some bad moves in the past few years you think they don't have their act together? Lets not forget how many years Square has been around and how many successful titles they've had, you can't discredit the rest of their history over only a few years of bad releases.

I don't know how well 10/10-2 effected sells in Japan but I wouldn't say square had as big of an influence as Naughty Dog (Jack and Daxter), Sucker Punch (Sly Cooper), Insomniac games (Ratchet and Clank), Capcom (Street Fighter/Devil May Cry/Resident Evil), Kojima (Metal Gear Solid), namco (Okami, Xenosaga), Ubisoft (Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell), and Sony themselves (line of games) had bigger influence. 10 most likely pushed the ps2 out the gate with a strong lead but was forgotten 2 years in with 10-2. After that nothing from square was major.

I can understand that claim towards the Playstation but the Playstation 2.. I can't support it.

Right now the ones carrying the ps3 and now the ps4 are Naughty Dog, with "The Last of US".



They haven't had a decent writer/director (in FF 6-10 standards) since 10, constantly changing their director (for Final Fantasy), after each title, to a new one (as if trying to find the shoe that fits). Almost all the great workers from 4-10 left the company and started/joined their own/other companies or retired. They've fixated on graphics as there focus of improvement and side railed character development and story, which they were most known for, for over a decade.

Some bad moves, some bad choices, some bad focuses, some, recently, really bad (rpg) games.

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/infinite-undiscovery/71504
http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/the-last-remnant/72036
http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/star-ocean-the-last-hope/72886
(played all 3)

Ya Square "has" been around for over 30 years, and "used" to make good games... In the 80-90's. It's been 10 years, since their last hit, since the last time they did enough things right.

Sorry I grew up with Square, watched their rise and fall. You don't wake up suddenly a different person. I do want them to go back to the greatness they were, but I'm not a fanboy enough to continue disillusioning myself into thinking that "It'll be the next title", "That will be the good one" anymore. I stopped after they tricked me with the Final Fantasy 12 promo's.

Final Fantasy USED to be one of the biggest franchises. I'm sorry, but if this were the last console generation, I would agree with you, but right now we can list NUMEROUS franchises that have appeared that pushed Final Fantasy way off of that pedestal. You can only rest on your laurels for so long, after that, you either step up, or step out, and Final Fantasy either needs to step up, or just stop. If I am being honest, there are other RPG's I would rather spend money on than the next Final Fantasy(The Witcher 3, Dragon Age 3), it's at this point, I bought 13 day one, I bought 13-2 day one, and I'm fed up with SE.

I could care less for Squeenix these days. My interest died at Squaresoft.

As a developer, the only game I really liked was TWEWY. They have published a few games I did like... Like Star Ocean and Tactics Ogre and stuff...

Meh.

Still playing it to this day on my psp. I still won't give up on SE as their only failure to me was XIII (and XIV but I don't really care about that one). I still believe they can learn from their mistakes and I'm confident XV will be a success.

Fucking thread end.

I totally agree with this. The only way SE is going to make it is if they grow up and realize that no one with good taste [consumers and devs alike ] is interested in Final Fantasy anymore.
People want original stuff here. Sure each final fantasy has a different story blah blah blah but please stop kidding yourself, there are more entertaining experiences in the rpg world and none of them are final fantasy games [starting with 7 onwards. excluding Tactics since it was actually pretty good].

If only they had the mind to bring back Einhander..