623 Posts

You do say the game should be played a certain way. You literally say it is a party game meant to be played by 4 players with items and no other way. There is nothing wrong with that but again, we want the option to play like we did in smash 64 and Melee. Me going back to Melee is not the same as saying the game should be played a certain way. It means that I am simply putting the new game down sooner to play the older game.

I don't think I need to be careful with what I mean by competitive. It is fairly straightforward. The game has to have depth, actual combos, and no random elements.

Wavedashing and L canceling gave you options, but they were far from the only important elements. L canceling could be replaced by lowered landing lag across the board because it doesn't give you any interesting choices of "Should I L cancel?" Because the answer is Yes. Wavedashing is really cool and part of the physics of the game. It adds some options for defense and a TON for offense. It is a shame it is gone but a replacement could be faster dodge rolls (although this isn't exactly perfect).

What is also important is Hitstun, grab mechanics, ledge mechanics, and so on. In Melee, pretty much all grabs when used threw you into the air so you could use Directional Influence to try and avoid your opponent. To regrab you, the opponent had to read where you were going to go and grab you midair before you touched the ground to roll away. This is how grabs should be as it is VERY balanced. There was only one grab infinite in wobbling and the rest of the chain grabs were done purely out of skill. Funnily enough, Fox and Falco were super easy to chaingrab because of their fall speed. Look at brawl and you have stupid grabs that chain into each other because they always throw the opponent the same way. Falco's forward throw, Marth's grab release(which shouldn't exist), ect. Sure, you can wiggle out of them but the fact that they exist in the first place is just stupid.

Ledge mechanics sadly don't look to be all too good in the next game. Hitting the edge of the ledge automatically if you are even close to it(regardless of the direction you are facing) makes for bad gameplay. It means that you have few offensive options to stop your opponent from getting on the ledge. If the defending player misses the ledge? Hit them with a smash or attack. Taking up the ledge yourself was only one way that was both risky and didn't work very well sometimes. This also means that moves like Mario's cape are pretty meaningless because he would usually use it to turn around his opponent and let them fall to their doom. Now it is a terrible anti projectile move.

There are a lot more things to consider, but generally depth is the key. You have a set group of choices you as a player can do for offense. The enemy has a set amount of things for defense, but their options don't outweigh offensive options. You make interesting and thought out decisions on your next move and what moves you throw out.

There are a lot more things to go over. Like how L canceling and Wavedashing are indeed intended mechanics. One due to it's presence in previous games and the other because it is part of the physics of the game. And of course jump canceling being very very useful for making the game play faster.

Also, I have never met anybody in the smash community who told people to "stop having fun". They may favor a way to play, but they don't tell other people to play in a way they don't want to. The only exception to this might be playing with friends, but friends usually end up in all the same group. If one is a melee player, and the others aren't into smash then they will likely start getting into melee(and vice versa).

Also yes, Devil May Cry combos, Blazblue Combos, Street fighter combos, and Ultimate marvel vs capcom 3 combos didn't intend to be there. So intent of what somebody made something to be really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that I can jump cancel Yamato strikes into beowulf/gilgamesh kick then prop and gunslinger -> million stab, or use Hazama for insane amounts of damage that wasn't originally intended by j.C spamming, or even do loops and infinites with Doom/Zero/Vergil or use unblockable setups. What matters is how it is in the end because of what people make from it.

P.S. Most people don't choose their character solely based on tier lists. They play what they like. It just so happens that characters like Marth, Falco, Shiek, Fox, Jigglpuff, Peach, and Captain falcon pretty much cover most of the bases for what people like out of characters. Also, it is NOT minor things that are being left out. All of the things are pretty major and have been in every game since 64 until Brawl.

Nintendo did it before without online, I fail to see how that is relevant for cutting them some slack in this area. They are a big game company and smash bros is one of their best franchises, I would expect nothing less than "Great for Everyone" from it. Seeing as that was the case in previous games, it had enough for competition and casual stuff. I love Nintendo stuff, but generally I don't like seeing fighting games I like being played for maybe a month or less then put down because it just isn't interesting anymore. I would be willing to cut them some slack on lesser known franchises like Tomodachi Life in the west. But not Smash Bros.