Bakemonogatari

My bad that you misunderstood... I didn't say that for the lack of reply this thread is getting. I said that only in regards to the post/er above mine/me.


when I already did mention the same...

And just to be crystalline clear, it's not like I seriously feel that way (:cry:) nor care at all (:roll:).


Can she really be considered honest? If so, I think her honesty is quite disturbing. Remember how she expressed her "inexperience" ? -She may have admitted it, yes, but it's quite funny how she had said it otherwise in the beginning.

I can see that behind all those harsh words, she's still someone who cares for and somewhat is interested in Araragi. From her actions and words, it's just tough to determine if she actually likes the guy, and also in consideration of how the two of them basically just met and recently became friends. Likewise, I can't clearly see through her "returning-the-favor" act (which I do think is normal but...); is it really all that there is, or is it her way of trying to get along closer to Araragi, or perhaps she "loves" him after all... yuck. (wtf did I have to say that?!)

If honesty is doing and saying things in a roundabout fashion, then honesty it is.


I wouldn't really oppose this but I doubt the two of them in a romantic(sexual) relationship would ever change my opinion of her so easily.

Not that my tastes were ever mainstream but ... Hitagi's the best (and most surprising) female character of this season !
It's really been a while since a tsundere introduced something fresh to the genre and her numerous puns, manipulative/playful personality and charming usage of otaku/anime vocabulary make her all the more adorable. I usually bore my ass off during dialog-heavy episodes but thanks to her, ep 3 was made of win. Not that the first 10 minutes of ep 2 haven't sold her already...
I really hope she won't be pushed aside in the latter parts of the show.

Araragi's a blockhead BTW failing to read some obvious flags.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hitagi only talk about how Araragi is inexperienced and a virgin? While that might of implied that Hitagi had some experience, it's not like she was actually lying. In any case, perhaps it would be better to say that she says whatever is on her mind, though that should equate to honesty (though there's the "virginity is contagious" line to consider). As far as the "roundabout" thing, I think that is from her Oujo-sama-level personality, but it really has no effect on honesty. Whether you call a person "stupid" or say that "you don't have a brain" that is the 'truth' as you perceive it.

More or less, I was expecting you'd say that thus I couldn't really argue if that's the way you see it. To me, more than of being honest, she is tactless; outspoken and straightforward in voicing out her opinion. The thing is, there's just too much of a difference for mere words to be considered as "honesty" as a whole. I may not be able to express it well but anyway, honesty is a product of a person's thoughts and feelings through bodily and vocal expressions. One reason as to why Hitagi's hard to read is because she only speaks of what's on her mind and not what's in her heart.

I also believe that she contradicted her statements a few times, particularly about Araragi's virginity which she brought up. I'm not merely referring to when she said that she had plenty of experience only to retract it seconds later. It's more on how defensive she acted (considering that she started the topic anyway), unreasonably stepping down on Araragi even further by saying that only late-bloomer virgins such as herself would ever bother to talk to an unappealing virgin like him. She only placed herself on the same level as Araragi and yet she still managed to say it like that (acting so high and mighty), at point blank range, even pointing her finger at him. -What does that say about her now?

She's so dishonest it irritates the hell out of me. She just came out of nowhere and destroyed the atmosphere's tranquility. I just find it so hard to believe that she came there by chance. What could a smart, pretty, athletic, sexy girl, sporting a newly bought outfit, like her be doing in a place like that regardless of Araragi being there? -I don't really give too much shit about her intentions, I'm just trying to point out how her mere act of spending some quality time with Araragi doesn't match(go along well) with how she talks to him.

It's that personality of hers which acts as some sort of defense-mechanism, for her weaker and fragile self to take cover. Needless to say, the manner that she talks to Araragi is nothing but a front/facade. If they eventually settle in a more-than-just-friends kind of relationship, she might become more subtle in more than just her choice of words in the latter stages of the series... (Well, I'm not really hoping for a miracle to happen)

Now there's something you don't see very often - a psychoanalysis of a Shaft character ^_^
Not that there's anything wrong about it but it may be a bit of a wasted effort. Shaft just did what it does quite often - took a generic character frame, stuffed it with a fuckload of puns and flavors and warped it up in a semi-artistic package.
Hitagi ain't meant to be deep, dynamic or even consistent (and I honestly doubt she's designed to be any real romantic interest). Ep 4 calls her Tsundere-chan (^_^) and that's mostly what she is - a straightforward, somewhat cold/bitchy chick who gets a bit indirect (a more fitting word than dishonest IMO) around the male lead.
She's supposed to leave an memorable impression (quite a variety of impressions judging from the differences between our attitudes towards her), serve as a contrast to the other overly-sharpened character personalities and not be analyzed. She'll probably open up a lil bit in the future and hilariously interact (compete ?) with the rest of the 'harem' but that's probably gonna be it. Love her nonetheless ... even more so since she hates kids.

Anyways ep 4 was ok as long you're prepared for another 20 minutes of over-saturated dialog and equipped Mayoi in quite a bit of additional charm. Her interactions with Araragi, Hitagi and (in the later part) Tsubasa were fun but nothing really happened again. The PTA pun and the 2nd loli KO were amongst the highlights for me along with the final phone conversation with stapler usage in the background. I also like how the studio keeps shuffling OPs/EDs but it also makes me worried about the overall budget distribution. Some quality drops and money saving are already showing up ...

@Das: Perhaps you know of this already, but in case you still didn't, I'm one vicious tsundere hater. Yup, you heard it correctly; I've never ever once fancied a character under that category, as I tend to easily forget their names a second after they don't get mentioned (Hitagi should feel very honored that I haven't forgotten hers yet). And neither do yanderes; just so you know, I've never even encountered one in my whole career of anime viewing. -Impressive, if I do say so myself. :)

On a more serious note, you just made my statements sound so silly. I'm quite aware that I did over-analyze a character from one of SHAFT's "adaptations". Certainly, I'm quite familiar with the way they do things without you telling me. But considering that the series was merely adapted from the light novels of the same title(obviously :razz:), the characters are portrayed in such a way as they were originally created. Before the anime even began airing, I knew for the longest of time (from different sources) that Hitagi's gonna be or rather, IS a tsundere. I may have not read the light novels to be able to determine or make such comparisons but I'd like to believe the fact that most LN-anime adaptations don't deviate much from the original. I sure hope that there's more to Hitagi's character than just what we have seen thus far. Either way, I could live with her being a bitch to Araragi all throughout the entire anime series. (I extend my sympathies to the poor guy)

PS: Dudes/Guys of the same category are pretty much alright with me. (in other words, Male Tsundere) -is that wierd or am I?

Lastly, you almost spoiled me there if didn't recall seeing gg's episode 4 release at tokyotosho earlier. I sure haven't seen it yet and surely not until Thursday.

Episode 4 out. Another priceless episode with Senjougohara's epic conversations and loli-beating.

That assumes that she knows what's in her heart.


She didn't contradict herself. She never said she had experience.


She acts in a condescending manner. It's obvious. It's understandable. She lived in luxury, thus creating an Oujo-sama personality that was probably kind yet naive. Then the assault happened. The naivety gave way to cynicism. Then her emotions left her. You could say that all that was left a finely sharpened blade capable of cutting down the dignity of others. This leads to my next point ...


Just because Hitagi's trauma caused a great shift in her personality, it doesn't mean that putting a bandage on that trauma would restore her old personality. Let me reiterate, just because she has a heart, it doesn't necessarily means she understands it. She understands that she owes Araragi something, but maybe she doesn't understand why she wants to be his friend.


Except Shaft didn't create her. Remember, Bakemonogatari is a light novel series first and foremost. It doesn't necessarily mean she's deep ... but it's certainly more likely for a light novel character to be deep than an anime character.


What isn't a wasted effort? Regardless, it's far more interesting than simply saying



Not gonna lie, that is weird.

@hermit : Believe it or not but I didn't know you've hated tsunderes. Now that explains a thing or two ... D: Your loss then - they're awesome (though I also dislike yanderes most of the time). I will politely skip on the male-tsundere part ... Wasn't my intention to make fun of your post BTW. Guess we simply view the show from different perspectives ... all the better since it provides shit to talk about ^_^

@Zero: Good point on the wasted effort part. Nicely ridiculed part of my own post ^_^

As for the issue at hand. Yeah, I was aware that the anime was a novel adaptation and therefore Hitagi and the rest of the gang aren't really original characters. The thing is though, I would never expect Shaft to bring a character to 'life' without well ... adding Shaft to it. I know very little about the LN myself but from what info I managed to gather Hitagi's basically described as a self-proclaimed tsundere, speaking in an abusive manner that gets cured form her disease with the help of the main lead. Definitely leaves some space to work on. Add to that the fact the studio often prioritizes form over substance and I wouldn't really be surprised that the anime ain't a hardcore, 100% faithful adaptation but uses the original material more like a guideline/reference point (Negima anyone ?). Hence I believe calling anime-Hitagi a Shaft character ain't that much of an overstatement.

I'm surprised they made a new op for this...lol

Can't wait to see the others now :)

The new OP:

Loli.

I still find, after having watched the second OP about 10 times, the stapler OP more interesting :)

I just had a thought here, does anyone else feel like their going through an acid trip or something when watching this series?

Actualy yes i do kinda feel that way.

Don't worry, you'll get used to it. It's just Shaft's unusual art direction in effect.

Edit: I noticed in the "flashback OP" that there will be two more arcs, then probably Hanekawa's, then Araragi's.

Yeahp...still waiting for gg's subs, but I heard that a lot of stuff goes down in this week's ep.

Their subs are out now. I'm going to download it, and watch the entire arc all at once tomorrow.

Episode 5 out at Animeseason

This episode....was priceless!! The best episode so far IMO

Now that we got some good subs, I'll watch 5 straight ^_^ Hopefully this one will be good for keeps. I like watching anime straight - like 5-6 episodes in one sitting. Especially I only get to watch on weekends.

Don't do this, trust me. This show is awesome with no doubts but also a total brainwash. One ep per week is just enough...

Guess I'll take your word for it :) I just saw one episode already an hour ago.