Broken Blade

Pretty much going through the motions of most war-based anime, but I'm still liking it. I'm glad Zess isn't totally naive. He understands that there are things out of his control and things that have been hidden from him. I also appreciated that he didn't immediately get the "I'm going to kill him!" feeling after Lee kills herself. He also apparently has a daughter, that might become an interesting dynamic. I'm so used to teenage anime characters that its hard to look at them and realize that they are 25 years old.

I do wonder about Zess' brother. Does he feel protective of Zess or is he jealous?

Also, how does Delphing recharge? It went from 1 min. to 1040 min. of power in one scene transition.

I gather it may be along the lines of Loquis, born (first) in a family of such prestige, living a life that has long been decided for him. He resents his brother -- who was able to get away with all the politics, and, unlike him, has been able to do things as he please -- supposedly now more than ever, upon learning that Zess just went behind his back.

If one thing, I was surprised by Loquis not exploiting Zess' talents, later on questioning Zess’ motivation (assuming it's fame) -- was as close to a confirmation I needed to conclude that he truly doesn’t know a single thing about his brother, much less care at all.

At least it's quite amusing how both are much oblivious to each ones’ agendas. Not as if the younger’s idealism ignorance can lead into something undesirable for the older.

I wouldn't call Zess either idealistic or naive or ignorant. At least not willfully ignorant. He's not one to say "Let's not fight each other!" or "By taking over we will make a better future!" nor does he talk about "justice" or anything. He's fighting there precisely because he knows what will happen when that army of 200 Golems arrive.

I never meant to imply that Zess is ignorant, but rather, he's ignorant in regards to his older brother’s agenda, specifically the fate that awaits two certain friends of his; should Hodr chooses to surrender.

Zess blindly believes that he cannot fail his mission, but in fact, he almost did, and was even unaware of it, when one of his subordinates, Lee, attempted to kill Hodr on her better judgment. Surely, Hodr’s demise is the last thing he wants, as it would shut down all possibilities towards, at least, a more peaceful resolution.

So tell me, can you simply dismiss such an incident as something that was out of his hands, despite of him having handpicked his team among the best pilots his nation has to offer? No pun intended.

Yes, I can because in the end, I think Zess, sadly, is willing to kill his friend if it means saving more people. (I consider "saving more people" to be Zess' personal mission rather than "save my friends".) He certainly wants to avoid that scenario, but is only willing to go so far to avoid it. Not to mention that I was given the impression that he didn't think Hodr would come out of his city, and also I don't think he gave his teammates specific instructions to capture Hodr alive. Admittedly, war isn't as simple as chess, but generally when the king is killed, there's a huge loss of morale and surrendering does look better afterwards. Though whether surrendering would actually happen in that situation is still up in the air.

First of several things I've considered, it’s not as though everyone in Athens knew, except him. Meaning that even if he did snoop around, it’s still unlikely that he would have found out; especially not when there’s only a few who knows to begin with. Though maybe, the irony in that is his brother actually being one of those few.

Look, we may not know (yet) the whole circumstance as to why he failed to know, but the flashback, in addition to the “acting on his own” remark, is very compelling evidence, flashback-wise, that he and Loquis never talked about the (impending) war – heck, perhaps not about anything at all. To be more accurate, those facts tell me that Zess is just as responsible for his own ignorance. Not that Loquis would have told him regardless, but that’s beside the point.

Nonetheless, it’s never really an excuse to say “hey, it’s not his fault that no one told him about it”. For starters, he could have made an effort to contact and persuade Hodr to surrender in a more civil manner. More intriguingly, he should know, just as much as Rygart does, that Hodr isn’t one who would sacrifice the lives of his people for a petty title or a throne -- not unless there’s more at stake preventing him to comply with Athens' demands. The bottom line is – he really should know (his friends) better. Oh snap! He’s even a lot more ignorant than I had thought.



I thought so too, at first. Only, his hesitancy to kill Rygart, twice in the battlefield, tells me differently. Personally, I'd call it being "indecisive", or would you rather -- being "optimistic"? Either way is fine by me.



If that’s the case, then the more I must say that Zess is naïve -- or maybe -- you are. See, even if he deemed unlikely that Hodr would leave his fortress, it doesn’t mean one bit that Hodr couldn’t. And as you said, war isn’t a simple game of chess; a king’s movement is not as limited and as predictable as it is in reality.



It appears to me that he purposely left his subordinates in the dark on the true nature of their assault. It goes without saying that he cannot tell them that they are risking their asses not (exactly) for the glory of Athens, but for such a selfish reason as sparing the enemy nation from "inevitable" destruction, much to say the lives of former friends, if at all, possible.



True, that is if the king was indeed outclassed and killed in battle – not murdered.

Furthermore, as charismatic a king as Hodr is, he is still only just a person who simply wears a crown – quite easily replaceable. Although in this case, it is also because of that charisma that I believe his people would follow his will (of not surrendering) to the very end – given that they, like Zess, are oblivious to certain facts, otherwise they no longer have a charismatic king to fight for.



Fix'd.

Thank god for cliches; I guess we'll never know.

Either Rygart didn’t love you -- Or he did – so much that he'd entrust you to a friend whom he knows will be able to give you everything; everything he cannot.

Okay, I can see where you're coming from. I didn't have a broad enough perspective on this. The only counter-argument I could come up with was that the narrative(/plot device) has essentially declared that those two simply do not talk. The "why" doesn't matter, they just don't talk. It's like asking why there are machines powered by quartz. It's an established part of the narrative that assumes one is just going to accept it for what it is. But yeah, even outside of that, your point still applies unless we get a flashback stating otherwise.



Wait. Wasn't this explained? Zess knows this shit. But Big Brother and the rest of his merry warmongers ilk aren't exactly going to be happy to just back off after the stunt pulled by Orlando using Krisna. Basically, the bureaucracy of Athens thinks Krisna should be punished and Zess can't do a damn thing to stop it (at least that's how the narrative puts it). So this forces
So I had this written out until I realized that your point still stands.



Or there's the whole "Rygart wouldn't hurt a fly and hates war" angle that we've heard multiple times by now. Killing Rygart wouldn't amount to anything in those instances. If Zess does it again then you can be as pessimistic as ever call him "indecisive".



This isn't Code Geass, people don't actually lead with the King piece in chess. There's really no reason to think that Hodr would've come out after getting sent that surrender notice. It's not like the scenery outside the castle is beautiful or anything. And people don't usually assume that there's an ancient super-weapon just outside the castle gates. Hell, he didn't even have to come out to show Rygart the Golem, he could have just as easily had a scientist show him it. You could even say that he put Rygart in even more danger by simply being there, rather than not. Lee would not have bothered looking into that hole after finishing off the above-ground forces.



The "true nature" is meaningless. The methods do not change. It's still 5 Golems against a fortified city. Whether Krisna is destroyed or whether it surrenders, the outcome is the same in Athens' eyes. Zess certainly had no problems with Lee nearly killing Hodr. Zess even reiterates in episode 2 about how their purpose is to show their power enough so that the kingdom surrenders. To sound cynical about it, Zess is there to save people, but it's irrelevant to the others since they came for glory or to prove the Golem's abilities or whatever. This is practically a volunteer force rather than an actual military squad.



This isn't a king that participates in battle though. It's hard for him to NOT be "murdered".



Hold up there, the only reason he hasn't surrendered already is because he doesn't particularity like the idea of Sigyn and himself being killed (probably more so Sigyn than himself though who can say). Though it's a bit of a Catch 22 since if Hodr is "murdered" then the people probably wouldn't know his will was actually to surrender.

Which proved to be fatal for one of his men -- or women, whatever. And please do remind me, who's the first person he condemns for it again? Wasn't it Rygart himself -- for not killing one "enemy", who also happened to be an old friend. He had no qualms about finishing off an "unknown" pilot/threat, who is already down and maybe out, but he couldn't kill a pilot whom he knows can never be Rygart? That's funny, not to mention that you'd consider me a pessimist. But you know what, I'll take being pessimistic over being naive, anytime.

By the way, you know you can just derep me, right? Make things easier for the both of us.



Again, with the CG reference that you are well aware I haven't seen. Should I start mentioning Guymelefs, etc, just to prove my point? The point being -- at war, "anything goes". You can only do so much as to plan ahead just to see it crumble the next minute. So yeah, point taken.



Now, this is good. But to what extent? That Zess had it all figured out -- only for the "unlikely hero" to foil his plans? Or that Zess is really more than just an interesting character in your eyes? Whatever that is, so be it.

Guess I'm done playing the devil's advocate. Clearly, I'm not as invested in this series as you are, though I'd be lying if I told you that I'm not at least tempted to argue some more -- considering the argument presented here is really good; just not perfect.



Not being suggestive but I really wonder about that.


Lol, then you do get the point -- which is not really about Hodr, but the entire (Krisna) nation on "what they know and/or do not know" which would have greatly influenced their decision, whether they would have fought on or surrender, had Hodr met his demise earlier on. And while it sure is a dilemma for the living, it's not to say that the deceased king can no longer speak and therefore has no more say on what will happen next.

You give yourself too much credit.



Well, I'm of the opinion that Lee was an idiot. Smart people generally don't rush down incredibly powerful mecha after wasting a lot of ammo and having an arm destroyed. But that's neither here nor there I guess.



He was kind of in the middle of killing that "unknown" until the plot device cavalry showed up. Anyway, he could be blaming himself for not taking out Delphing's legs rather than outright killing Rygart. I'd feel pretty depressed if I failed to shoot a crappy pilot's mecha's legs.



That's not fun. Well, it's more like I can't remember the last time I actually thought the rep system had enough value to make the effort to click the button for either positive or negative. Not even Harmo could get me to click that button.



I'm all for Guymelefs.



Nah, it isn't anything like that. To say that I'm "invested" in this series is quite the overstatement.



Even if I was capable of presenting the "perfect argument", it would eat up shit loads of time to do the proper analyses, etc., etc. I don't have quite that much free time.

Lot's of fighting, which is good in a series where the drama is by far the weakest point. Also, quite a few unexpected deaths as some of the Krisna generals fall in battle. Rygart is as usual. Even after being taught how to operate his Golem better, he still is more efficient at ramming his opponents into pieces. Girge is really bipolar, one second he's scared before the shooting even starts, then the next he's mowing down elite enemy soldiers.