Sekirei

Really enjoyed the anime and just started the manga! Last episode was awesome and can't wait to start watching Pure Engagement!

First of all, let no one call me an enemy of boobs, especially big ones. That was by far the best part of the show.

The dubbing was awful, no surprise.
The main character was really underwhelmingly lame. He makes Keitaro from Love Hina seem awesome.
The relationship between the Sekirei and Ashikabi seemed too sex-slavey. I'm glad they had some male sekirei, but it mostly just instilled the idea that women's happiness naturally stems from love, loyalty and service.

I will say this though: Kusano was really sweet and cute. By far my favorite.

Actually any statement declaring what a poster isn't doing, or doesn't mean always gets me suspicious right of the bat, and in this case that suspicion seems to be justified. What series did you watch (actually did you watch it at all) because you certainly didn't watch the series I saw.

"The dubbing was awful, no surprise." Actually, the only 'no surprise" here is one more 'fan' who is willing to condemn every dub, because there is nothing wrong with this one. The voice acting is above par and there is almost no difference in the scripts - I've seen it both subtitled and dubbed. The differences are very minor and in most cases I found the dubbed version to be clearer and easier to understand.

"Sex-slavery" - really! Just where do you see that, even the lowlife, bastard Ashikabis treated their Sekireis as tools to gain power, I never saw a single instance where they were treated as sex-objects. In most cases Ashikabis and Sekireis were shown to be deeply in love and devoted to one another. No sexism, male and female Sekireis were treated EXACTLY the same. Subservient, yes - there is an element of that due to the basic design of the Sekirei characters.

"... it mostly just instilled the idea that women's happiness naturally stems from love, loyalty and service." Again, really! Are you twelve? Have you ever actually been in a relationship - love and loyalty are big parts of any successful relationship, for both partners - and the series shows that - in the successful pairs both partners are in love and loyal to one another. Just how is love and loyalty in a relationship a bad thing?

Service? I guess if you decide to go on a witch hunt you'll find evidence of sorcery, at least in your own mind.

I'll let my favorites back up my oppai fandom credentials, but I don't think that's the main point here.

As for dubbing- you have seriously misjudged me, although I very much do not blame you. I almost always prefer dubs to subs, however I've recently been feeling that ecchi things tend to have lackluster dubs. I did not intend to imply that dubbing in general is bad, although it's my fault for not clarifying. Finally, I would like to restate my opinion, as I felt the last one was quite hyperbolic: the dubs were slighly underwhelming, although certainly not awful.

And I certainly agree with you that too many fans jump on the dubs suck bandwagon without the slightest hesitation.

That where my agreement with you ends, I'm afraid.

This is an ecchi anime, not hentai, so explicit depiction of sex obviously isn't proof I can pull up. Notice that I didn't say the depiction was sexist, but it did hint at a clear master-servant relationship. This ties in to my criticism of the portrayal of loyalty- the show perpetuates, via an obvious metaphor, the belief that one cannot be happy and single. The sekirei who resisted emerging were shown as miserable in their restraint.

In no way am I opposed to love and relationships; in fact, I'm rather hoping for some of both in my near future. However, while I may want it in my life, many people don't, and that's an entirely legitimate preference. One which was never shown in a truly positive manner in this show.

To answer your (minor) ad hominems, I've been alive and single for 21 years now.

Your criticism was rather well constructed, so thank you for that.

Agreed



I constantly hear dubs suck, this dub sucks - OK, why? Slightly underwhelming is pretty vague, and if that is the extent of it's short-comings is "the dub sucked - no surprise" either deserved or fair?



You did not, but you certainly hinted at it heavily. I'll give you the master-servant relationship, but don't you think you're over analyzing and reading more into the situation than is implied? The very nature of their being was to be involved in a master-servant relationship, is a genie-master relationship any different? Sometimes things are just what they are shown to be without some deep philosophical or meta-physical meaning - they're damn cartoons!



You have a vivid imagination and apparently a need to over-analysis (at least in my opinion), the un-emerged Sekirei did not ALL want or even look to find an Ashikabi, some resisted to the very end - others wanted to wait to find the right partner. Human nature is to want to find a partner - few folks want to grow old alone.



Once again - it's a damned cartoon! And even if it wasn't, why should the author feel obliged to show every possible lifestyle choice?



Sorry - I just couldn't help myself :)

I have noticed an apparent need to over-think anime and entertainment in general, and not simply in this case. I've read people posting about why Child Protective Service wasn't involved in Girls I am Your Father - doesn't anyone realize it's not only a cartoon but a sit-com, it's not supposed to be realistic. Another poster claims he dropped Gurren Lagann because it wasn't true to Quantum Physics - really? IMHO entertainment should be judged on whether it makes us laugh, or cry or simply supplies us with 23 minutes of enjoyment. Why the need to hyper-evaluate those things that were never intended to be taken seriously? I'll never understand it - maybe it's a generational thing.

I hope you don't mind if I only respond to this paragraph.

Sure, I'm a pretty analytical person, and some (such as you) would say I take it too far at times. Still, that's what comes naturally to me, and there's nothing wrong with that. People have different ways of expressing themselves, and if others dislike it, they can choose not to engage the offender. Of course, people with differing opinions can also have enriching interactions, but this doesn't happen all that often.

As for it being generational- I'm 21, how old are you?

(Sorry for the massive divertion)

I do actually, a little bit - I was quite looking forward to your answers on several other points :(



I agree that being analytical isn't necessarily a bad thing, and that different folks are going to draw there enjoyment from a series in different ways. But I totally disagree on the thought that people who disagree should simply "choose not to engage the offender".

Forums by their very nature exist to promote interaction and people forget that - they make a post seeking confirmation of their opinion or stance, and if they don't receive it they get angry at the other posters (not talking about you btw). In your case you made several sweeping and extremely vague arguments condemning the series on a public forum, if I totally disagree (which I do) why would I not engage you? Frankly, some of your statements scream to be engaged and in several cases (at least so far) you've been unwilling or unable to defend your position.



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BTW - I got two notifications but found only one reply - am I missing something?

Well. I just finished it. Didnt like it.

Action was decent, but it feels rushed.

It's one of my favorite series. Tsukiumi is actually my favorite anime girl ever. Plus, Sekirei has a really great plot. Sure, there's quite a bit of a fanservice. But, who's complaining? At it's core, Sekirei is a love story. A unique one at that. And I think if people can get past the giant bouncing boobs and panty shots(which are great by the way), they could really enjoy a sweet love story that, as Minaka puts it "Is one for the ages!".

Still waiting for season 3...

Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I am curious about the rushed statement, this is another criticism I hear a lot and which sounds extremely vague to me.

The series has 27 episodes (inc OVA), has a detailed and well developed plot, takes time to develop each girl in turn (as well as a few of the side characters) - what exactly feels 'rushed'?




Well said my friend, I think Sekirei is a perfect example of not being able to judge a book by it's cover. The ecchi is indeed strong with this one, but that does not change the fact that it has a great storyline, good plot and character development and actually tells a rather touching and unique story. Yes, Robin Williams (and many more comics) are absolutely obscene when doing stand-up - it doesn't make them any less funny.

No problem, I just tend to babble longer than most would prefer. I'll give a fuller response.



You'll notice that I did retract that opinion. In retrospect, I do agree that my statement was neither deserved nor fair.



True, I did imply that sexism was involved, because honestly, I did sense a rather strong gust of gender roles from Sekirei. Of course, I feel the same way about most harems, so I'm really not singling out this one.

The author need not show every possible lifestyle choice, but at least represent the highly relevant ones. In a show about bonds and pairs, the happily single one who feels no need to find a partner is a fundamentally important foil to the main protagonists imo.

Regardless of the author's intentions to depict society in a certain way, some depiction did happen. When those who were unimpressed with this depiction lay their complaints, is "too philosophical" really a meaningful charge to levy against them?



I did state "people with differing opinions can also have enriching interactions, but this doesn't happen all that often." Call it pessimistic, but in my experience, people who disagree tend to fling shit at each other more often than shake hands. However, what we are doing is what I would describe as "shake hands", and I'm not detracting from the value of forums in making it possible. Just saying it could happen more.



Well there's something I don't see everyday. Although I'm sure you get that all the time in these parts. The multiple notifications were because it bugged out posting my reply, so I deleted it (several times) and posted the same one again.

"You'll notice that I did retract that opinion. In retrospect, I do agree that my statement was neither deserved nor fair."

Something I don't see here often, someone admitting that there may actually be another point of view - very refreshing : )

"I did state "people with differing opinions can also have enriching interactions, but this doesn't happen all that often." Call it pessimistic, but in my experience, people who disagree tend to fling shit at each other more often than shake hands. However, what we are doing is what I would describe as "shake hands", and I'm not detracting from the value of forums in making it possible. Just saying it could happen more."

I am sad to say I can not disagree with you here, discussion (or even a good old fashioned heated argument) have sadly degenerated into name calling and personal attacks (one reason I rarely post any more - LOL, you just happened to pick on one of favorite series). And I agree on the shake hands - it has been an enjoyable discussion, even when we will simply have to agree to disagree (which IMHO is a perfectly acceptable outcome).

"True, I did imply that sexism was involved, because honestly, I did sense a rather strong gust of gender roles from Sekirei. Of course, I feel the same way about most harems, so I'm really not singling out this one."

This is probably one of those agree to disagree moments. Your point has merit, on the other hand I think it is impossible to judge the product of a very different culture through our own rose colored glasses. I also think many people's views on what constitutes sexism (for instance) tend to change with age. The Japanese have very different views on gender roles, sex in general, a woman's place in society, etc. Who are we to insist that they change their values to suit us. We were never the intended audience of most anime, the Japanese are and anime reflects their tastes and morals - not ours.

I hope this does not insult you (or anyone else) but in my experience, one's views on sex and sexism change radically over time - I don't find the new wave of feminist views to be widespread or readily accepted here in the US, so I certainly don't believe we should be trying to push them other cultures. I hear how sexist, etc. ecchi and harem comedies are all the time (all the more confusing coming from guys on a hentai forum), the funny thing is I have two grown daughters that love ecchi and harems, and a mature (any mention of age is automatically 2 weeks on the sofa) wife who also loves ecchi and harems - and she was a card carrying feminists back in the 60's.

There are lots of anime I don't like and a few I find disturbing, I simply stop watching them. My personal disapproval is in no way a solid indicator of a shows quality - it just means I didn't like it. I simply do not understand the recent trend (OK I'll say it straight = among younger people) to label anything they don't like as crap.

And BTW - yea, I get that a lot, I'm also an avid gamer - where I am also usually a definite minority when it comes to age. Just goes to show you there is really no upper age limit on enjoyment, you'd be surprised how many older anime fans are out there - they just don't tend to be active on forums.