[Locked] Discussion: Unlicensed Content Removal

wave, as far as I know everyone is innocent until proved guilty.
What you are doing is declaring someone guilty and asking to provide proof of innocence without even presenting proof of guilt from your side. So before asking of proof of innocence, please present proof of guilt.

Fact: the author of doujinshi on licensed series (like Naruto, bleach and so on) can't make profict selling those same doujinshi. At most they can get the money for the cost the producer of said doujinshi sustained. Meaning paper, ink and typography. If they ask for more the owner of the original work would get on their ass so fast that they would roll like a spinning top.

Deduction: doujinshi in digital format can't be sold at more than the price of the support they are carried on. As far as I know internet doujinshi do't have a support. Well, we can consider the space on the server as support.

Ergo: internet doujinshi can't have a price superior than the equivalent of their space on the server. This can neatly sidestepped with a montly subscription. And all of this DON'T MAKE harm to the doujinshi on licensed series.

Original doujinshi are another story altogheter.

In this I've to fully agree with you. Except on a simple thing:
As you said the owner don't get a direct revenue from the doujinshi, true.
Yet a single well made internet doujinshi -with a similar art style and not OOC- in a well know site can make a publicity equal (some time superior) of a dozen of banner in another site or a publicity spot in every other publication from the same producer. Even in Japan itself.
So there is an indirect benefit: load and load of free publicity.
Moreover there is another benefit, this one for the buyer of the legal rights when manga and co came over: amateur worker.
Sure, most aren't professional.
Most traslator are just university guys that use doujinshi and manga as a form of language training. Yet some are better than some professional. Do you know how Akatsuki (from Naruto) was traslated in Italy? Alba (dawn). How they got dawn from red moon I don't know. The first time the byakugan appeared here? Occhi bianchi (white eyes). WTF? you use sharingan (mirror wheel eye) as it is and traslate his counterpart?
Some cleaner aren't the cream of the cream. Some just are guys that use a free photoshop alternative on those thing for time. Yet take a look at most traslated manga on the web. You will see some page fully redrawed so well that you'll think the author helped them. Take those guys, give them professional training and tools and you'll get a miracle worker. Cheaply at that.
So, yeah. No direct benefit. But tons and tons of indirect.


Yup, people became cheap, this I wont deny.
Problem is that some industry are cheaper. As of now I've reading manga from, let see... 1997 I think. Maybe more. I was 15, more or les. 18 years are passed. Do you know how many series here in Italy I was following they either truncated or changed rag (as in a different producer line)? I lost like 8 manga that got truncated. Those I can get behind. If they don't sell, well... But at least another 10 changed rag. And with different rag come a different distribution line. I live around Lecce. To get those new rag I would had to go al least around Rome -at the time. And at those time you had to buy via mail order. Here the mail sistem was slow and inefficent: expensive for expedition and lots of mail got lost until like ten years ago.
So, I had to go cheap or I had to go pay a lot of money because the change of rag. Not a real choise, right?


There is a crack down only when there is an interess. Otherwise all what is needed to crack the big line piracy is to impose at all the nations a lockdown on know pirate ip. Include the ip of the proxy server in the lockdown and most of the piracy is gone. Sure, the more you go the more new ip come out. But the update are needed for those thing.
As of now piracy is needed. Because every pirate that use illegal software in their home, on their legal workstation they HAVE TO GET a paid, legal and licensed copy of said software. Be it cad, office, photoshop or whatever. Moreover, most pc have included MS windows -isn't free, it's price is just included in your pc price. Some but not all have Office. Those without office at work will have to buy it.
It's like... do you remember windows genuine advantage? That bugged thing that microsoft included in the service pack 2 or 3, if I'm not wrong. And for a time was required to get the updates?
Do you know why it got removed? For a public reason and a silent one.
Public: it was so buggy that locked down a good percent of the original windows.
Silent: that thing locked down so many sistem in such a short time that most pc pc owner just formatted and reinstalled everything and blocked the update.
Wrost part was that WGA locked even internet navigation. So, If I had an original windows I couldn't even unlock it -unless I called an overpriced paid number. If I had a non original one then I couldn't even buy a online code. After that? Windows xp sale made like rock in the water: they drowned.
So, yeah. Piracy will last until they find a way to suppress free will and all the other possible choise.

I think this will be a good thing (long term). There will always be outlets to get shit for free but I think it's important that the main outlets are pay only.

The issue with doujinshi is that technically no one holds the rights for that work. Let's take "Cure Assort" as an example, on one side we have isya, the artist, on the other side we have the one that holds the rights for the characters she's using (Toei Animation...?).I don't know what kind of deal yuri-ism made with "isya" to sell "Cure Assort" but if none of them are paying royalties to the franchise rightful owner they are indeed committing a crime since isya (according to yuri-ism) doesn't have any rights to sell that product or even "license" it. Let's face it, doujinshi can't be licensed in any way unless the artist is willing to pay royalties to the "rightful" right holder and if that comes to be, we can wave goodbye to the doujin world as we know.

Harm = crime = guilt or innocence. This is more than data. It's a fact.

It's like saying: "I know of no evidence that you didn't kill your brother's hamster. If there is, show me the data."
You see? I just changed the crime and the subject, same significate and end.

Before you go around asking about proof of innocence -in this case PIRACY DOES NOT HARM INDUSTRY- show us proof of guilt -that piracy* of licensed series doujinshi (that legally can't produce gain for the drawer**) HARM SAID INDUSTRY. Show us your data.

This said let's go to the asterisk:

* we are talking of doujinshi about series that are licensed. This mean said doujinshi can't be licensed themself if they aren't drawed by the same author of the original manga, game, anime, whatever or with their consent. Thus this isn't piracy.
** BTW drawer, artist, producer and all the other mixed thing for the doujinshi of licensed series are the same person. If you take the time to look at the doujinshi cover and back cover you'll rarely see any mark of industry. Not even a banner with the company name. But you'll always see the author name on the back cover. Those type of doujinshi are usually sold on convention. The one on auction or on online retail are bought from the convention but aren't sold as doujinshi per se, but as collection piece. Otherwise the reseller would get in trouble with the copyright law. You don't get to distribuite these on the big distribution line. The artist have to pay himself, as I've already say, for everything, and can't make a legal gain from those. Sure, you can cook the book a bit, play with the average percent of the variable cost, but that's it. A reseller can add more variable cost, fix cost and a certain gain for the worker undo himself (hey, if I sell something I've to pay the middle man too, right?). Otherwise Doujinshi wouldn't be so cheap.

Uh... and now that I re-read your anserw I see you left unanserwed the point I made about how internet doujinshi DON'T harm the industry of licensed doujinshi (aka the original one, the one that are licensed by author and protected by copyright law) and instead changed your angle on how statistic aren't guilty nor innocent.

what happened to the forced tag?