Project-H Print & Digital Quality?

Hi there. I'm relatively new to the legal ero manga scene. I dabbled on the dark side in years past but could never get into it due to poor scan quality, inconsistent translations, and most of all genital censorship. The fact I was also not supporting the artists in any way also made me feel uncomfortable. Well, FAKKU pretty much single handedly changed my tune once it went legit and got me back into the ero manga and doujinshi scene. With the $10 promo for FAKKU's 10th anniversary I finally went from long time lurker to paid supporter. Thus far, I'm very impressed by the service and the value for the money. Enough so I even bought a bunch of the FAKKU books releases. The only thing I'd like to see improved as of now is the addition of discounts for multiple months of subscription over one month. Like maybe 5%, 10%, and 20% off the full price if you subscribe for 3 months, 6 months, or 12 months, respectively. What impressed me most is FAKKU's commitment to quality releases, in collaboration with the creators, and best of all, the releases are fully uncensored and in high resolution. FAKKU also does not seem to skimp on the print front, either. Their releases are way better than most typical non ero manga, and the cost is not bad either considering the quality. Suffice to say, I'm quite satisfied with the new FAKKU and wish them much success.

All that said, I'm aware of other ero manga and doujinshi licensors/distributors in North America. For instance, Project-H sells print and digital ero manga and doujinshi as well. There are some works from them I have my eye on and I would like your feedback about their quality, especially as compared to FAKKU releases. As I stated in this post on the Vanilla Essence KS thread topic, I'm interested in Yamatogawa's works from them. However, I missed the KS project and I'm not sure I can get the Vanilla Essence LE outside of it on their web store. The 2nd editions of Yamatogawa's works in their web store appear to be of higher quality than the first printings. I'm not sure if they are the same as the add-ons from the KS or different, though?

At any rate, they currently have a 15% off sale until January 1st it seems, and if these works are high enough quality I'd be interested in picking them up in both print and digital. I hear a lot of their releases are sub-par compared to FAKKU releases but some appear to be of decent high quality, too. So, any input from those of you familiar with Project-H and their releases, both print and digital, would be much appreciated. Also, how often do they run sales? Are they usually about 15% off? What digital format would you recommend for a Windows PC and android devices? Finally, are there any other works besides Yamatogawa's ones they have in similar high quality? If so, what ones, and what would you recommend?

Thanks in advance to all for helping out this poor noob. Apologies if this was posted in the wrong place or if I said anything taboo unknowingly.

I'm not 100% certain (haven't actually ordered any), but all the Yamatogawa books they currently stock in their online store should be for the 2nd edition reprints, not the LE ones. So that means higher quality paper (not the recycled stuff), and most likely any color pages from the front and back of the book (Power Play), but maybe not any ones from the middle (Witchcraft). The older releases were actually pretty good about keeping the color pages so I'd imagine they're still present in the reprints.

They might throw up any leftover LEs they have from the Kickstarter, but other than that I don't think they're going to reprint them.



Starting this year they've been pushing for higher-quality physical releases, so they've ditched the old recycled paper and have switched to a thicker, white paper like the old Darkhorse "Oh! My Goddess" releases. I've bought all 3 of the Yuzuki N' books they put out and the quality is way better than their older releases, although they don't come w/ dust jackets and may still be missing some color pages in the middle.

However, the biggest issue they have at the moment is that they're still censoring some of their releases. They say it's at the request of the JPN licensors, but titles like Shikishiro Konomi's "Fantasy Hentai School Girls" are missing a chapter. That burned me a bit b/c the content was pretty innocuous, it was my favorite chapter in the book, and they still charged near full-price when I bought it. =\

I don't buy any of their digital stuff so I can't comment on the quality (or lack thereof).



I'm not sure how often they run sales, but I've noticed their prices on new physical releases tend to come down pretty fast, so if you wait a couple months after the initial release you can usually pick it up on the cheap. It also might be worth it to check out Rightstuf as well. As for digital format, I prefer plain PNGs over anything else b/c they seem to be the most portable (I hate PDFs w/ a flaming passion).

Regarding recommendations, that's a tough one. Yamatogawa is easily the best artist they have in their catalog, and I don't think anything else even comes close. I like Yuzuki N's stuff and they're all available in the higher-quality paper, but her artwork is a bit of a mixed bag: good, but not great. If you don't mind the crappier paper, I'd actually recommend some of their older releases like "Cute Devil Girlfriend" from Hisasi (it says 2nd edition, but it's not on the newer paper!), and all of the stuff from Chihiro Harumi and Joji Manabe, although they're both softcore and not hardcore but still have great artwork.

Ah, so I'm still unclear if the 2nd editions are the same as the LEs in the KS? Anyone else know here? What I can gather thus far is they are better than the 1st prints, but may not be as good as the LEs, if they differ. I may wait and see if they add the LE for Vanilla Essence later before ordering anything, as it seems to only be the standard version there now. I hope someone else can shed some more insight about the Yamatogawa 2nd editions and whether they match the LEs from the KS or not, and if not what differs.




Good to know they have upped the quality of late. Such a pity about the lack of dust jackets and select censorship, though. I won't buy anything that's been censored unless I absolutely love the artist and the work. Yeah, FAKKU's releases look all the more appealing price wise in comparison, given the better quality standard and slightly lower price point with it. Project-H is now bundling the digital with the print for about $5 more than the print price together. FAKKU includes digital with print at no extra cost, as well as allows for downloads of all file types, while Project-H only gives you one selection. So, FAKKU is definitely setting the standard here. Hopefully someone else can comment of the digital file quality.




How much do the prices come down after a few months on average? Yeah, RS occasionally has sales for them, but the 2nd editions seem to be exclusive to Project-H's web store, so it would only be good for the newer non Yamatogawa releases, assuming RS has them stocked. Project-H doesn't have .zip but I do see .cbz which should have .png or similar inside I'd think.

Cute Devil Girlfriend peaked my interest most outside Yamatogawa's stuff. It's disappointing to hear they skimped on the paper quality still despite it being a 2nd edition, though. I'll keep the others you recommend in mind and check them out.

Thanks a lot for your input. I really appreciate the help. Hopefully some others can further clarify where you are unsure.

I have two add on LE from the KS. The ones in the stores are the same ones from the KS... at least the ISBN is. If you want to confirm you can always email the store. Censoring wise i think they have the same problem as fakku on some of the contents leading to loli and how to receive payments for loli content physically. The Japanese licensee wanting it be censored maybe something, but i doubt it since only project h and Iron cat sold censored tankobons. Eros did on the issue based hentai, but the majority if not all tankobons aka gn were uncensored. They might censored the loli chapters im not sure. If eros could get the uncensored version i think project h could of also in it's beginning. But then again i ever bought project h manga from the actual webstore for various reasons.

I do have the pirated( or i had before i lost the flash drive)and the one i got from the KS. Quality wise it the same as fakku 2400x files. They do have a drm xml file with your id in it. Their emanga site is horrid. Slow and half the time it fails to load or server error. I don't see the difference with the devil girlfriend first ed and the original japanese tankobon.

Also a cbz is a zip with comic book reader accessibility. Just change the cbz to zip or in the case of cbr to rar. They do have sales and coupons. Last one was 15% off with the code.

Ah, this bodes well for the 2nd editions being the same as the add-on LEs from the KS then. I emailed Project-H just now to clarify about this. Hopefully they get back to me before the sale ends with a straight forward answer.



It looks like Cute Devil Girlfriend's 1st edition was missing such content but the listing for the Project-H web store exclusive 2nd edition remedies this. Besides that, what Project-H releases should I look out for with similar "controversial content" censorship? Since you mention FAKKU! has issues with it, too, what FAKKU! titles are affected?



Thanks for the heads up on the quality and the DRM. If the DRM is just an ID and does not require an internet check or something, then that's acceptable, though still undesirable, for me. With Cute Devil Girlfriend, I'm assuming if the 1st edition is on par with the Japanese tank, then the 2nd edition should be a bit better quality.

Ah, that's what I figure with .cbz, good to know it is simple enough to extract them to image files. Are the zipped images in .png or something else?

They currently have 15% off with a code until January 1st. Would you say the price for the print edition is discounted well at 15% off compared to other sales they have had in the past? For example, $20 for print at 15% off is $17. Would that $17 price be a better deal than some other sales or do they ever do better than that?

Thanks a lot for your help. It's much appreciated. Also, hope you are having a nice holiday season and will have a great new year, too.

Hanafuda physical and NTR². More speculation than actual fact.

Not sure if you already brought what you wanted but use the code: AHEGAO to get 20% discount. Got that from e-mail from them.

Thanks a lot for the heads up, appreciate it. Haven't put in an order yet, been waiting to hear back from support regarding my questions. That said, this is a pretty good discount and I may chance an order for some of their web store limited stuff.

Do you know how long this coupon code is good for and does it have any restrictions?

I have no idea when it expires and don't know the restrictions. Sorry about that.

No worries. Since I did not know when the coupon code would expire and this is likely the best discount they will offer outside of maybe a Black Friday or clearance sale, I decided to put in a decent size order to get free shipping and make the most of it. I got both the print and digital copies of the following:

How Good Was I? (2nd Edition) - For a more vanilla Yamatogawa experience.
Power Play! (2nd Edition) - Love fantasy settings and this one has some nice art too.
Boing Boing (2nd Edition) - Looks like this is one of the more praised Yamatogawa books. I liked what I saw so far.
Cute Devil Girlfriend (2nd Edition) - I love me some monster girls and bonus points if they are demon/oni or succubus
Deep Stalker - Yeah, I went there... I can only read so much vanilla before I need a little more stimulation lol.
Strange Sex In Parallel Worlds - The concept looks fun and I liked the art and crazy story. Pity a short chapter is cut, though.
Welcome to MizuryuLand! The 1st Day - A great looking doujin series. Again, really like the art and also the fun story.
Welcome to MizuryuLand! The 1.5 Day - See above.

All together with the 20% off coupon applied it came to around $152 with free shipping. That's $19 per book/doujin if you split it up evenly. I pretty much just got the digital versions for free with the print ones with that discount. However, the digital coming with the print by buying direct should be standard practice, IMHO. FAKKU sets the bar there and spoils us with its generosity, but that's goodwill you can't buy in my book.

I would have got Welcome to MizuryuLand! The 2nd Day as well if the print version was stocked. Will have to wait for a restock for now. I decided to hold off on Yamatogawa's Aqua Bless, Witchcraft, and Vanilla Essence for now, given the first two had print runs with other companies and are likely to stick around longer and the latter may be stocked in LE format if there is any excess left over later; at least that's my wishful thinking for now.

As to the digital, I chose .cbz for my one option I'm allowed. Again, FAKKU sets the bar there with ALL options allowed and included with print. While I figured the resolution was going to be x2400, it is actually half that! It's only x1200 resolution .jpg images. I was pretty disappointed to find they cheap out not only with resolution but also go the .jpg route instead of .png for the individual image files. FAKKU not only has better resolution at x3200 and x2600, but it also uses .png for the images, which is a lot less lossy in terms of quality. The Project-H digital images exhibit some minor artifacting around edges being .jpg and the lower resolution, which makes its only real advantage over scanlations being it is uncensored, presumably from the original files from the creator. Anyway, though I'm certainly disappointed in the digital quality relative to FAKKU, I still am glad to have them digitally uncensored for quick and convenient reading on my PC and phone/tablet. I hope Project-H is looking at FAKKU's quality digital releases and is gearing up to improve their digital catalog. Honestly, that is probably the single most important thing they should do to stay competitive long term.

I hope their print quality impresses me a lot more than the digital. They have some good titles but really need to let FAKKU handle their releases or something to ensure they are worth the money in quality. At least I'm happy there is an option for, mostly, uncensored and actually supporting the artists and legal distro. FAKKU can't grow larger soon enough. We need that quality to be the standard industry wide.

I've previously said in another forum I have a hard time these days paying nearly 20 bucks for a Project-H book even though I gladly spend the same amount on a FAKKU book.

Your right in that FAKKU definitely set the bar with their books and their pricing with both the physical and digital bundle. My first hentai book I bought was from Project-H a couple years back with Ring x Mama and I bought it for less than 17 dollars but looking at their prices now seem ridiculous. I understand the pricing on 2nd editions or with books with higher quality print but the pricing on the ring x mama books and some of their older releases are ridiculous and still censored. I mean I'm definitely going to pick up the rest of the books but it just feels like business has changed for them and they're in the Hentai business because they think they'll make a ton of money because it's porn.

I've previously tried to defend them before, but it just feels like they don't really care about the fanbase and customers. I mean they have a few great authors like Mizuryu Kei, Yuzuki N, and Yamatogawa, but they're really pushing it when they have the mindset that just because it's adult material it's gonna make a ton of profit for them.

Their print quality has definitely gone up but I never buy any of the digital bundles with them just to save money and if I'm gonna pay 20 bucks then it'd better be on par with the FAKKU quality books. Although I wouldn't mind paying maybe about 17-18 bucks for the book.

Sorry for the rant :p

Also, I don't know if anyone has ever checked but FAKKU books are printed in Hong Kong and Project-H books are printed in Canada.
Maybe that's the reason for the price differences...

Nah, your rant is probably justified, I feel you on the digital front at least. A digital FAKKU release at the same dollar value as a Project-H one at this point in time is just plain better in terms of value for the money. I'm still waiting to see how their print manga stacks up in person, but going by pics and comments from others, it seems there is still room for improvement; which, to their credit, they seem to be making in the print realm of late if those reports are true. My bigger pet peeve is the censorship on print releases still. While I'm happy they get released at all, censorship is a huge turn off to me. I'm way more likely to buy a book on impulse knowing it is fully intact and uncensored than knowing it has content missing and/or genitals censored.

Project-H is part of a larger corporate structure under Digital Manga Inc. and probably has more red tape and disconnect between people in the organization as a result. Hopefully, the Project-H division is taking notice of what FAKKU is doing and is reporting back to higher ups about what needs to be done to compete long term and not just resting on "it's porn, they will buy it". I think the print ero manga, and anime for that matter, market shrinking over the past decade has shown you can't just assume that any longer. What's more, FAKKU seems to be doing quite well by comparison, so the market is definitely still there, it has just changed how it consumes the media and has higher quality standards than the market of yesteryear. If a company can meet those quality standards while still turning profit, then it is a no brainer it can work with the right team at the helm and a passion for what you do. I'd love to see someone try and do what FAKKU, or even Crunchyroll, does but with ero anime, and start a legal streaming site with uncensored simulcast and catalog streaming content. There are a few PPV sites that are legal, but they are so expensive and the market has changed so much from the PPV days. They need to rethink their business model if they want to compete with "free" alternatives.

As to where they are printed, that's interesting. I don't know how big of a difference it makes for their revenues, however. Quality for FAKKU releases does not seem to be affected by it at least. I can't imagine a printer in China or Canada is so cheap that paying to import books back into the US would be that much cheaper than printing them here. Maybe I'm wrong, though, as I have no idea what printer costs are like between the countries. It is pretty sad importing it back into the US seems to be cheaper than using a US printer.

Got my first Project-H books order in today (image in spoiler):



I've got mixed feelings about the value for the money. On the one hand, I'm happy to own a legal copy in decent quality that supports the artist. On the other hand, they don't come close to FAKKU's standards for either digital or print versions and charge more for both bundled together. Comparing the print books with digital, they are definitely better resolution than the x1200 digital files. I see much clearer detail at a higher print resolution than the 100% view of the digital files.

The paper quality for Cute Devil Girlfriend 2nd Ed. and Deep Stalker is not the best but serviceable at least. I'd say it is similar to a typical Viz manga in terms of look and feel. Seems to be more newspaper like stock than white paper but not totally newspaper, somewhere in between. Strange Sex in Parallel Worlds uses better paper quality than those two and has a lot whiter looking pages but still pales in comparison to any FAKKU book.

Interestingly enough, Welcome to Mizuryuland! The 1st Day is printed in Canada and has a more newspaper-y look than Welcome to Mizuryuland! The 1.5 Day, which is printed in the USA and has a lot clearer and whiter paper. I'm not sure why there is the difference in quality between them and why they chose to print in two places for them, given they are from the same series, but I guess at least it is improving as it progresses. Hopefully The 2nd Day and beyond will use the same whiter and clearer paper stock as The Day 1.5.

The 2nd Ed. Yamatogawa books are all pretty good quality. They each have a paper stock that is close to FAKKU in terms of whiteness and clarity, but they are noticeably thinner pages than what FAKKU uses. You can see in a side by side view (in spoiler below) the FAKKU books are just a tad wider due to using the thicker stock pages than Project-H used here.



All in all I'm satisfied with the print books, they are not bad quality by any means, but I am disappointed in the value for the money compared to FAKKU's quality and value. With FAKKU, we get that same high quality standard every time with digital included from store purchases, and all digital formats and resolutions at that. Project-H's quality for books is all over the place, ranging from standard manga newsprint to just below FAKKU quality with the 2nd Ed. Yamatogawa books. The thing is they charge the same $20 as FAKKU does for the lesser quality, and sometimes books are even censored or omit content at that. That's not even mentioning they upcharge $5 to bundle digital with print from their store making it $25 for both, only give you one option for DL, and use very disappointing x1200 vertical resolution .jpg image files in the .cbz option. When you compare their releases to FAKKU's, the difference is night and day. I sincerely hope they continue to improve their release quality to be more in line with what FAKKU does every time because as is they are overpriced for what quality they deliver relative to FAKKU.

The paper quality for Cute Devil Girlfriend and Deep Stalker isn't the same as the 2nd edition of Yamatogawa books? well that's disappointing...

As for the 2nd edition of Yamatogawa books, I have Boing Boing and Witchcraft and I gotta say sure it's not high quality as FAKKU books but I think I'm pretty satisfied with the quality of it. If only Project-H would just release all their books in that kind of quality I wouldn't mind spending 20 bucks per book but I'm still hesitant on buying from them again. Of course, as a completionist I do intend to buy more books but I'm still going to have issues with their pricing.

I don't really care too much about the paper quality but I think their 2nd edition of Yamatogawa books are perfectly good enough. If they can't compete with the paper quality department with FAKKU, that's fine with me but they should at least set the standard for their new books in the same quality as the 2nd edition of Yamatogawa books. It really irritates me I have to pay nearly 20 bucks for an older book which has newspaper like paper quality (which I'm trying to finish Ring X mama and Velvet Kiss).

I know both FAKKU and Project-H are doing their own thing and I really don't like to make comparisons in which one is better than the other because I really appreciate the fact that we're even getting hentai translated and uncensored but in terms of bang for buck I just gotta go with FAKKU. As for Project-H, I have my frustrations with them but I'm glad we're at least getting Yamatogawa and Mizuryu kei books and some really hardcore titles, so I'm at least glad we're getting that much.

Also, I forgot to mention but Project-H is based in Los Angeles, so I think that might have something to do with how business is done over there because you know.... Los Angeles...

Now that you mention Ring X Mama... I pre-ordered Vol. 4 & 5 on amazon back when it was about to get a print release but never got the book (after some time amazon canceled the order). And I can't find them on the net. Did they cancel the physical release?

Unfortunately, Cute Devil Girlfriend 2nd Ed. and Deep Stalker are at least a couple steps below, maybe more, in terms of paper stock than the 2nd Ed. Yamatogawa ones. They have that grittier feel to the pages and have the light grayish white tone instead of a pure white tone like you see with the 2nd Ed. Yamatogawa books or FAKKU books. They are not bad by any means, they are just not the higher quality smooth white paper. Comparing them with some of my non ero manga, I find they are slightly better than the paper stock used for Haganai, released by Dark Horse, and are close to Food Wars, released by Viz.

Strange Sex in Parallel Worlds has a mostly smooth white paper stock, though it is just a step down from the 2nd Ed. Yamatogawa books. Probably one option below the one used for them while the other two are at least two options below if not three or four, but still on par with or slightly better than most regular manga releases in the US.



Agreed. They should make the paper stock used with the 2nd Ed. Yamatogawa books the standard going forward. Though, I'm not gonna hold my breath there. However, I don't think they are using that paper stock on any of their other releases as of now. Maybe they are on the most recent stuff from the past month or two, but even Strange Sex in Parallel Worlds was just a tad lower paper quality, though still pretty good and mostly smooth and white. If they at least use the paper stock from Strange Sex in Parallel Worlds, then I'd consider that a win as it would at least be fairly smooth and white paper instead of the more newsprint kind.



Unfortunately, I think they have their mind made up to stay the course for those older titles with the cheaper paper stock. I do have hope the newer stuff will be done on the mostly smooth and white paper in SSiPW. I'm not sure they are willing to spring for the 2nd Ed. Yamatogawa paper on every new release yet, since that seems to be done moreso due to having the KS funds in place, but we'll see. Honestly, if they just priced the books with cheaper paper cheaper, they would at least be setting their value in a more fair range. For the paper they used with CDG and DS, they should probably be priced closer to $15, but I digress.



Yeah, putting in perspective the state of the ero manga scene in the US before FAKKU went legit with its books, things were shrinking rapidly and we were lucky to even get licenses from Project-H. I, too, am glad we are at least getting anything legally from them, especially the work from those two. That said, cheaping out on the release almost becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, as you think you can't afford to do a quality job because you need to be cautious but then you in turn disappoint the fans who buy for the quality. Hopefully FAKKU's success and the Kickstarter's success has shown them the market is still there if you have a quality product and they continue to make improvements from here on out.

Overall, I'm pleased with my order but feel the value for the money is just not quite up to my expectations when I know it can, and should, be done better. I will still buy stuff from artists I like but I'm a lot more cautious with buying anything on the spur of the moment before knowing details about the quality of the release.

I've got two more books from Project-H coming next week from Amazon, had a gift card to use so they are free for me, and will post about their quality here then as well so others will know. They are the standard edition of Vanilla Essence and Ane Kyun: My Sweet Sweet Elder Sister.

According to Right Stuf, volumes 4 and 5 are out of print. I'm not sure if they ever got a physical release, but if they did it must have been very limited. The Project-H site only has digital for them despite having print for the other volumes. In all likelihood they were cancelled before the street date then.

You're right, Ring x Mama vol 4 and 5 never got a physical release (I have no idea what happened since their release schedule didn't have any issues ) and we're still waiting on it, but recently Project-H had a AMA on reddit and they said they are getting on a physical release some time soon... well their definition of some time soon anyway...

Is this the Reddit AMA you are referring to?

Yeah, looks like they will be reprinting a lot of stuff, which is good.

Incidentally, you can see what I'm talking about with their digital quality based on the images they link in the MC Academy preview. The .jpg images in the preview at the top are the same quality as they use in the .cbz files I got. If you save the images from imgur, you will see they are only 850 x 1200 resolution when you look at the file properties.

In the AMA, they mention they use x2200 on the low end and x2400 on the high end, but hint some of the newer stuff is more. However, all of the .cbz files I got for my order, including the 2nd Ed. Yamatogawa books, are in x1200 resolution. Pretty disappointing if they have higher resolution with other file formats. I sent support an email asking about it and hope to learn more soon.

I had a chance to buy Ring X Mama 4, but I passed, I swear I saw it in stock.

I actually picked up the 2nd ed Cute Devil Girlfriend because I wanted the "extra" content, worth it for me anyway.

I was going to give some back ground speculation about the differences between Fakku and PH. My apologies if this considered common knowledge, but I wanted to share some info. I have been purchasing from both for a while (and before that eros comix (fantagraphics), and before that Icarus comics (got the entire AG collection)!

PH is part of a larger company and they distribute their books for sale, and that changes everything. Alot of physical products you buy 'cost' just a fraction of the msrp to produce. I say 'cost' because the physical cost of a product is just one aspect. The cost to create that content exists, but the sale of all items cover it, vs the sale of one item to cover the cost to product that single item.

So, for board games anyway, the cost to create something is about 1/4 the msrp. So, lets say you are buying an $60 boardgame, that is most likely costing about $10-12. So, the company then sells it to a distributor for about twice that, so about $20-25. The distributor than sells that to the retailer for about twice that so $40, who then sells it to the consumer for $60. Basically, each middleman gets a cut, because they bring something to the table. The distributor has the network of retailers to sell to, the retailer has the network of consumers.

So, a $20 book from an established publisher is going to be very different from a book like Fakku or a Kickstarter. If Fakku was a traditional publisher, they would probably be charging closer to $30-35 for the quality of product. But they don't have to pay off the distributor or retailer. When I buy a PH book from barnes and noble or books a million, just a fraction of that money is going back to DMP.

If Fakku did your typical PH quality, I would guess they could charge $10-12 per book. Could PH increase quality? Certainly, but upto a point, they have to take a smaller cut or pass it onto the consumer. Remember too, the size of the print run changes the cost of your base product. PH has quite a few products going at once, which makes me think their print runs are smaller, which is a higher price point for them.

TLDR; Fakku isn't a traditional publisher and they are using the extra money they could get from selling direct to give you a higher quality product. There will always be a price/quality difference between indie/niche producers and anyone going through 'standard' channels.