The Moral thing to do ~ Abortion

I fail to see the correlation between this statement and your own personal choice... it's not like your own baby not having been born would change anything for other children, or those will never meet this kid in the first place.

Personally, I am pro-choice. That does not mean I would consider abortion myself; if possible, I'd keep every child that's mine. But then again, this world is fucked up enough to consider giving birth as a crime, for making that future human put up with all this shit.

Following Schopenhauer's logic, all life is suffering; and birth is the beginning of all suffering. Since making someone suffer is immoral, giving birth must be immoral in consequence.

Remember to read the full post Nashrakh, number two had nothing to do with personal choice, it was about forcing people to have abortions and the reasons why we should do so

I still don't see it, as "quality of life" is not as bad as in, say, Africa everywhere.

Not arguing the other two, but forcing someone to have an abortion because someone is worse off does not seem logical to me.

Okay, my point is apparently not as clear as I thought. I meant that in those countries and places where you are certain that bringing a child into this wold would mean a horrible life for said child, then we should force the woman to have an abortion

Yeah that's clearer.

Still, forcing someone to have an abortion in this case is missing the bigger picture in my opinion. Why do they have these children in the first place?

The answer is clear to me; it's poverty and the lack of contraceptives. We can bang on the pope again, but let's leave that aside.

I go out on a limb and say, if those regions of the world had a better quality of life, this would not be a problem.

Forcing abortions would be curing the symptoms, but not the disease.

You are right, that would be the "right" solution to educate and give them contraceptives. It is just not that easy, for too many reasons including religion.
But you're wrong about abortions only curing the symptoms, as doing so would also starve the disease.

The biggest problem is actually educating them right, as wanting children is instinctive, and even trying to convince educated people to have less kids is hard, so making poor, under-educated people see the bigger picture is near impossible.

This brings up another interesting question for those that approve of abortions, When is it okay to perform an abortion? 7,5, or 3 months before? anytime before it plops out? maybe a few months after it's been born? I mean while it might look human, my dog will be smarter then it for quite some time and i can have her killed anytime I'd want.

This is a really easy choice for me. Until a child is born it is incapable of doing anything. Its lower then an animal in my opinion. The way I see it, it only lives based on the good graces of it's mother. If she decides to abort it then it's not a big deal as she basically just getting rid of a parasite.

I don't really care.

I just think if your going to have sex, you should deal with the consequences of having a child. As for Rape, it up to the mother to decide (although I still think it's unfair for the mother to not give the child a chance to live).

I'm going to go ahead and include your replies to nash into this.

I can see how that would go over in Africa and the rest of the world. "Civilized America and Europe imposing their view of what is right on the savage mud races". If we weren't imperialist or fascist before, we sure as hell would be then. To think, some asshole from another country comes and forces women in your country to have an abortion if they don't fit what he deems acceptable.

Also, who would we use for this? The U.N.? or would the U.S. and Europe just go in and do it?



This brings up the question of who gets to decide who get to have a child and who doesn't. Who gets the power to violate the rights of women? The pro-choice crowd is always pushing it's a woman's right to choose. Yet, you promote taking that choice out of some hands. Also what criteria would you use to select who is can have birth or not? What's next, aborting a fetus if it shows any sign of defect? The idea you and Ramsus promote sounds a lot like Action T4.



Spanish Proverb: “A wise man changes his mind, a fool never”.

On topic: I don't lean one way or another on the topic. Pro-choice doesn't define at what point a "lump of cells" become entitled to the same rights as everyone else while pro-life gets you labeled a right wing nutcase and vilified as the devil incarnate by the other side. For the sake of my sanity I won't pick a side.

I dont care.

I get both sides. Pro life is the fact that you are saving lives. Pro choice is that the unwanted child will be miserable.

And the fact is that neither answer is right. Shit, life is just a buncha shades of grey. Thought everyone knew that.

It should be the choice of the mother. Why must she go through something that she does not want to, even if in cases where it can actually kill her. If someone would say something about contraceptives, think of unwanted pregnancies out of rape.

And I think the suffering of a child who hasnt even been born yet is far less than that of a woman who will suffer for the rest of her life.

For guys I guess, if you have a pregnant wife and your doctor will say if she gives birth she will die with 90% probability if you do not abort, will you risk her life for the baby? seriously, its so easy for some people to talk and preach of morality when its not in front of you and affecting the people that you love.

If its me, or if I had a wife and well odd enough shes eh on the said situation, id fly to a country where abortion is legal.

If one life is no better than the other, then what is the crime in choosing one over another.

I agree with this statement in all cases except partial birth abortion. If the woman is going to have an abortion, she better damn well decide before it's on it's way out.

it isint a liveing breathing lifeform until it can breath on its own and beat its own heart outside the womb. does that mean I think its right for sluts to use abortion as an easy way out? hell no. I think they should have there tubes tied if they want to have sex agian and agian without worrying about getting pregnant. but if it was a genuine accident it should be there choice they shouldn't be forced to have a child. and dont feed me that bullshit about adoption I dont see how its a solution at all because once you see it your hardwired to want to protect it. so i believe it should always be a choice. and personally if I was living in an abortion free country or society id "accidently" have a fall. call me cruel immoral i dont care but god gave us free will for a reason.

I always think that the whole subject on abortion is highly contradictive, Because
you have to take certain circumstances into account when your discussing this issue. For example, What if a women is raped by some gross weirdo, Do you think she would want to have a baby that was forced on to her? Do you think she'd want to tell her child when they are older on how they came to be? On the other hand I do see the other problem to with abortion which is Naive teens who have unprotected sex thinking pregancy won't occur and when the girl gets pregnant they decide to take the easy way out and not take the consequences, Which I find very
shameful.

Again....wtf is this "easy way out" bs? They and the child to possibly be should be punished because the girl wasn't smart enough to use birth control/got unlucky with said birth control methods? You as a guy can only call it easy because for you the choice has nothing to do with your body or how people view you if they know about your actions. Or perhaps you think it's the "easy way out" when a guy who promised to be with a woman he got pregnant decides to leave a few months into the pregnancy and she has to figure out whether or not she can raise a child by herself? I would consider the only "easy way out" that occurs is when a guy knocks a girl up and then ditches her when it's too late for her to change her mind, which happens quite a lot.

Eight percent of women who have abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated

Jones RK, Darroch JE and Henshaw SK, Contraceptive use among U.S. women having abortions in 2000–2001, Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, 2002, 34(6):294–303.




You forget about Child support. Abortion is the easy way out for the guy since he won't have to hand over 1/3rd or 1/2 of his income to the woman to support the child.

Here is more information for the pro-choice crowd

The whole abortion argument in a nutshell.

I don't care what side anybody is on. Just don't argue from the standpoint of emotions.

I guess I'm pro-life and Pro-choice. (No that isn't an oxymoron.)