[Locked] The reason I'm not an athiest.

no but i do remember the one with the church of david Blaine and Jesus and other deities go and fight him and the day

Yea, and believing that you will die if you jump from a 3 story building is also a belief without a diety, so?

Unless you're trying to say that Atheism is like a religion where we have some sort of belief system to which I say, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Wow, way to ruin the civilized discussion.

Look I work in a commnity building where on sunday morings, protestants have a church service, then after they leave, catholics come in. Throughout the day, muslims come in too pray. Some group comes in on saturdays but i'm not sure who they are... and guess what? An athiest GROUP comes in on Monday nights, and they are just like another religous group. They have a belief system to! even if the belief system is to not have a belief system...

Still, it sounds like you are most upset at athiest being defined, it isn't just the belief in NOTHING, it is the belief of no god.

Be that as it may you have to understand how that would be upsetting to some Atheists. It isn't just that some of us don't believe in a deity, but as for myself and a lot of others, it is a hatred of the belief structure that has been built around religion. Then you go and tell us we have our own belief structure, something that we hate. Not gonna be too pleased with that. ^_^;;

Yeah i get it but that is still what I see, but then again my view is from the outside ya know? So it is probably only something you get by being a athiest.

Sorry to offend by the way.

BUT DAYUMN IT!!! all these groups make a bunch of noise that I can hear in my office!

BTW not all religions do have a ridgid belief system, and alot of it is just tradition. I think alot of it is that as americans we associate the words "religion" with "christian" and then "catholic"

Way to misinterpret my post as something uncivilized. If you don't like curses, too fucking bad.


Their belief system is to not have a belief system. Hmm.


Yea, I know that. That's all atheism is. Nothing more. No system of beliefs involved. Nowhere close to being a religion.

Religion isn't civilized. And faith doesn't contain logic in it, it suppresses intellect and creates more stories. I really thought you read my posts, but I guess you probably just skimmed through them. So I'll be short here.

Atheism isn't a religion. It's more or less an anti-religion. It's so different and so many people have different philosophical views in the Atheist community the one thing we actually do believe is that the possibility of a God is zero. I know I want to start an Atheist group to round up people of similar intellect and possibly do something better for the world than wasting our time praying for it.

Blah. Try watching this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN8erK9SwPc&feature=channel_page

That was surprisingly powerful, and ironically exactly how I feel about organized religion.

O_O

wow... this thread... wow. >_<

in any case, you make fine points, thought we kinda derailed on the topic. I didn't really want another religious argument, I just wanted to see if someone could clear up that one point for me, which ya'll did avidly.

In conclusion, I'd like to quote a ancient Greek philosopher: Im not trying to convert anyone or keep the thread going, just somethin' to think about.


And that video does make ya think... (looks at the rest of the series)

thanks!

True there is a creator... but it's definitly not the GOD everything thinks of in every religion be it Allah,God,Jahwey or w/e. to be more accurate i don't believe in the "GOD" that just about everyone invisions

Pascal's Wager. Very weak argument.
Counter point: Which god should I believe in? There's so many of them that if you chose the wrong one, you go to hell/suffer. I'm better off not believing in one and go to hell than wasting my time and still go to hell.

it had a official name? I learned something today!

its a weak argument, true, but then again I must confess every argument I've heard for and against religion hasn't been terribly strong. Thats what makes religion so great, now that I think about it... humans have always thrived off fighting and compilation and separation. With something as uncertain as religion, we can keep making points and counterpoints all our lives and nothing will ever get solved, so we can just keep fighting till the cows get home.

if we didn't argue about religion, we'd just argue about something else...

thanks!

In a nutshell. Theists believe nothing existed (except God) then God created everything. Atheists (tend to) believe nothing existed except, a basketball size chunk of super dense, compacted matter which exploded. Congratulations, its the same except for the minor details which still leaves the questions "Where did God/whatever come from?" If God existed then where did God come from? If the super basketball existed where did the matter come from?

Welcome to the endless argument for a species that is still too young and ignorant to answer the question. One sides uses faith while the other side uses evidence. The methods of one group can't be used to persuade the other. This argument will go nowhere until a significant break through or event changes the status quo of information.

Theists can't convert a strong Atheist and Atheists can't covert a strong theist, so stop trying.

Yeah but this isn't a topic about changing peoples mind, it is a discussion on the subject. Actually, I find that debates never have a winner, it just furthers your own convictions.

Just because you win an argument doesn't mean your right, and I am mostly arguing just to argue. AND I DID READ YOUR POST SOYMILK!!! I just was so god tired I was running on fumes. I probably just didn't agree on some point... if you'd be more specific por favor?
AND...
How is athiestism an anti-religion? there are religions without dieties so is that really what you mean? Oh and just to clarify, let us define what a "Religion" is. So we don't debate in circles.
LASTLY...
You can't argue against the fact that EVERYONE has a belief system. If you didn't, you would have no opinion about whether murder was right or wrong, whether abortion is right or right, or if star wars is better then star trek.

@RBZ - my bad... we kool?

Just throwing it out there, but on the religion side of where everything came from, God is the starting point, and the answer to the question, "What created God, who created everything else?" is - God did not have a creator. That is why He is God. The title "God" is given to the all-powerful being that could exist without a creator.

I believe Aristotle says that if we keep going back, asking who created what, we eventually have to ask, "Who created the first thing?" And the only answer to that question is, the creator-less creator, ie God. You don't have to necessarily say anything else about God, except that He created something, which could then create other things, but that He Himself was not created.

Faith is important here not only because this stuff cannot be proven scientifically but also because it doesn't make sense. It is impossible to exist without being created. Thus, only an all-powerful being, or a being with inconceivable power, could do such a thing, and that is what we call God. God is the being that does not have to play by the rules, even if God created the rules. That's why He is God.

Go watch more Onision, razama. I'm not in the mood of writing long posts again. I think if you're interested in how Atheist think. Try youtube, there are some pretty good ones. Onision, Patcondell and Theamazingatheist are pretty good.

Here's one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGl1XmJfbWk&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=FCB66FBFF33BD264

And another you may enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEtfdzNAE74&feature=channel_page

What if he just "was"? What if he "is the beginning"?

That's why the argument will never be settled. For every scientific advancement, there will always be question on who brought it into being, and in turn who brought what is believed to be its creator into being.

What is good or evil? How can God pass judgment on those who are evil, when its not God that has decided what is good or evil but society.

In conclusion, the bible, book of absolute truth in everything it foretells, intern lies.

I always saw it kind of like this, on the big bang matter question:

It's the leftovers from the last Universe that collapsed in it's own big crunch. I always saw that the universe was in a sort of loop, where it blows up, exists for a bit, collapses, and repeats.

Doesn't really explain anything, but it's fun to think about.



On the other hand, it wouldn't make sense for God to exist in this universe and still be able to "not play by the rules". The ruleset of reality is cut and dried and not really alterable on the base level, though they can be bent.

The way I've always seen it, there are three possibilities:

God exists. However, in order to "not play by the rules:, he exists outside the human concepts of space and time. Kind of like having access to a game's source code. Thus, praying to him or venerating him would be pointless, because he would not hear it.

God existed, around the time when time began. He did his stuff, then either left or died, again leaving no point to prayer or worship.

God never existed. Self explanatory.

The reason I don't consider God capable of existing within our scope of universal awareness is that, in order to change it, he would have to have access to some form of energy to carry the changes out. It may be a type of energy humanity is unable to currently comprehend, much like electricity to cavemen, but that would not change the fact that it existed. As such, given that it exists, other should theoretically be able to then use it.

If you consider it that way, then not only does God lose the capital letter, it invites the idea that other gods may have existed or may exist elsewhere in the universe. Or, in other words, not so much gods as sentient beings advanced enough to have access to this universe-changing energy.

Going by that theory, this leads to two facts:

One, if these beings and energy exists somewhere out there, it's pretty far away, given that humanity hasn't seen reality distort itself randomly in out sector of space.

Two, if these then are simply advanced sentients and not god-beings, then there is STILL no point to prayer, worship, and sheep.