U.S. Healthcare System is so fu#$ed up

Hey All, as you could tell by reading my id, i am korean.

I lived in the U.S. for 11 years, and today, I'm feeling so fucking pissed off with the Health care in the U.S.A.

On 6/20/11, I went to the E.R. and spent about 4 hours there and sent home. The cost of the visit was $3,000 for the hospital and $500 for the doctor. Luckily, I was covered by student health insurance plan because i was enrolled in university, so I only had to give co-pay of $100. In the first minute I sorted the claim and solved the outrageous amount of $3,500 taken care of, I felt FREE & HAPPY.

then I posted this situation on facebook, complaining about it. A high school classmate of mine who recently had a baby "liked" the status. Her situation was that she had to give birth to her baby via c-section with NO HEALTH INSURANCE. Although she's not in debt, it will take her 2 years of monthly payments to pay off the doctor, Anesthesiologist and a friend of her who helped to make payments.

Also, when I googled "healthcare system is fucked up," the 2nd result grabbed my eyes -
http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2011/02/american-healthcare-system-is-fucked-up.html
it is a story of a korean woman who had stroke in the U.S., refused to go to UCLA medical center due to the high cost, so she risked her life by flying 13 hours on the plane to go to hospital in Korean.

... what the fuck!

I know that this is serious discussion page, but excuse my language. i'm just so worked up that I gotta vent.

Health care is so expensive because there's no competition, nothing restraining them from ridicules prices.

I think We should be more open to alternative health care, as it's cheaper, safer, and more effective

Healthcare and Universities are a business in the United States, reason why they are this expensive. I spend some of the year with my family in the United States and last time I went there, my dad had to get his appendix taken out. Luckily he has insurance, otherwise his bill would have been $60,000 + doctor visits. Coming from a country where the healthcare system is part of the government and given to its citizens (Look up Universal Healthcare), it truly makes me wonder how many people in the US can actually afford to pay their healthcare and emergency visits without going into debt. The US truly needs to do something about these rising costs. Don't get me wrong, the quality of the hospitals and equipment is amazing in America, but it still shouldn't be this expensive to use it. Just look at other countries with free or cheap healthcare, who have similar machines and hospital quality. Reason why many people fly to get their surgeries done in Korea, Canada, Mexico, and India. But yes, it's fucked up.

You know, this healthcare debate is starting to see a trend I'm not too fond of.

I don't think most of you realize just how expensive medical treatments are. Thousands of dollars for a visit to the emergency room is perfectly acceptable, especially when one considers how low tax rates are in the United States.

You know how some countries get away with cheaper and/or universal healthcare? Their tax rates. Take a look at them. As much as we may complain about taxes in the United States, we pay proportionately lower than most other countries. Well guess what, this money has to come from somewhere. The insurance companies don't just magically pay for this stuff out of thin air.

When did we get so self-important that we feel we should pay virtually nothing for basic healthcare, and yet still demand that we have low tax rates? I'm sorry, but you cannot have your cake and eat it too. The money has to come from somewhere, and it is coming from your own pocket in one way or another. It seems more acceptable in taxes because you aren't seeing the big picture of how many more thousands upon thousands of dollars you are spending on taxes, rather than the upfront thousands of dollars in a medical bill that is staring you in the face.

Now, I'm not going to argue that coverage isn't an issue in the United States, but price is not an issue.

[font=verdana][color=green]The low tax rates have caused America many problems, but we won't digress on that subject.

Anyway, coming from a country with supposed high taxes, I feel very fortunate to be enjoying a National Health Service. If you were to ask me, I would even argue that a NHS, or equivalent, is almost essential to a modern world country nowadays. In fact, it is severally worrying that a country as economically powerful as America hasn't established a NHS already; I'm sure that many citizens would rather pay higher taxes to finance this service than to buy insurance, which could be easily be denied by the insurance companies (there's always a clause which allows them a get-out).

The NHS was a masterful idea in 1948...yet 63 years later America still hasn't embraced it. What gives?

Just putting NHS as an example proves that a service like this can work and succeed. I am also happy with my National Healthcare and do not feel that my tax money is going to waste. Kinda hard to believe how the US is one of the few developed countries not to adopt a system like this. The American government response is that by doing this service, the country will turn into a "Socialist" government and advertise that it is bad for everyone to put a plan like that into service.

Different mentalities of the respective countries. American's are more individualistic then Europeans. Older American's were basically raised to "take care of themselves" i.e. pull themselves up by their bootstraps it is just part of our "rugged individual" mentality.

Simply put it's a different way of doing things. Up to the 1950's or 60's we had the best healthcare in the world. Better than the NHS but, it began to fall apart once Health Maintenance Services along with Medicare/Medicare managed to wiggle their way in. People like myself oppose Government Health care because our Government and society is not designed for such a system. It would collapse under the weight of bureaucracy and general government incompetence. Look at F.E.M.A's response to Katrina or how our "Lock box" for Social Security is empty. Then you wonder why we're skeptical about Government Healthcare?

Before railing too much on the American system you must acknowledge the flaws in your own system. The ambulance waiting rooms is one example I can mention. $17.36 million isn't a trivial amount. We also have the 18 week targets, the Alder Hey organs scandal. Then we have the NHS

denying life saving drugs Additional link


The NHS isn't all sunshine and rainbows either. Those reasons are why American's don't want Government Healthcare. Those are the reason why some American's don't want Government Healthcare.

It's not the problem that socialism is bad, we're all taught.. at least in my youth that socialism=Communism or totalitarian socialism. The fact is the us is a middle of the line socialist capitalistic system anyways. Free schools, libraries, social programs like welfare, food stamps, WIC and medicare. I actually argue this to the rep of my area in the house of reps. His kids are in public school, his mother in on medicare and SS, he paids into the ss fund... so do we all, but has the nerve to argue at a healthcare system (and any social change is socalism and down the raod to anarchy.. works for 23 other nations...)that is corrupted and not for the health but for the awesome money being maded. Vs a system that people can choose to be a part of or get their own insurance.

I paid a fuck ton of my hard earned money to uncle sam for shit like this, they don't fix the roads and bridges so fuck chip into a healthcare system for the needy and poor if not for all. You know how sorry that Cuba has a better healthcare and college system then US. I know mt doctor is Cuban.. a captain in the us army, trained and educated in cuba... shit Mantis probably a better doc then half the american ones.

I have to pay my own meds and pay for my kids insurance... which is giving to me by uncle sam and uncle jerry, what's a 15$ co pay when shit go down.

I agree with your sentiments, but price IS an issue. The US spends the MOST per capita on health care, yet we have one of the worst outcomes compared to other first world/industrialized countries.

You mean some Americans.

My my, splitting hairs are we now Tegumi? I'm suprised you'd grace us with your presence over such a minor error. Just to placate your sensitivities. I'll amend my statement.

Last year, I wiped out massively boogie-boarding; hit my head and shoulder on the bottom. My head started to hurt and I started to grow concerned if I got a concussion. An ambulance ride, x-ray and diagnosis (whiplash) later it was almost $1,000; most of it was doctor's fees and he was there for less than five minutes!
Of course, my health insurance couldn't cover it...

I also had to wait in a hospital room for 6. Hours. All the while feeling like my insides were about to rupture.

Haha, I just happened to stroll on by. Wasn't trying to pick on you or anything.

The only thing I have EVER had to say about healthcare is:

I have only gone to the doctor's office once in the last six years.

They should make it so the rates adjust depending on how often you go. I know that would be a pain to regulate, and it has the possibility of being abused to high heaven, but it would be nice.

Yup, that's true. Most middle and lower class Americans would love Government Healthcare, but too bad their vote really doesn't count as the Corporations and the Higher class controls these subjects. I know and lived in neighborhoods where the higher class in the city lives. Funny, most either go to the private schools or to public schools that are ten times better funded that another public school in a lower class neighborhood. Same thing with healthcare, just around the corner, the best hospitals are available to them because they can pay it. The majority of people are in debt and just simply can't afford health coverage. I guess the system in the United States only works for those who can afford it.

They are trying that, but they are taking it, to what many people think is the extreme, and making it based on medical history.

Honestly, I'm for and against that. I'm for it, if it can be handled in an appropriate manner. People who are in poor health do their own choices, should have to pay more for insurance than those who keep themselves in reasonably good health, or those that have mitigating medical problems that are beyond their sphere of influence.

There is a difference between the parents of a five-year old child who has Leukemia, and a forty-year old, morbidly obese man with diabetes who chooses to eat poorly and not exercise regularly.

The medical history aspect, is a point where I would draw the line. Medical history or no, your health and well-being is not written in stone. If they were to pass that bill, I would have to pay more because diabetes and high blood pressure is very prevalent in my family even though, as of now, I have neither infliction. Now if I have those inflictions, and it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that I can control my problems by own actions, then yes, I should have to pay more.

I wish we had Universal Health Care in America....but it probably won't happen...nevah...evah

One of the reasons is because the lower 50% of "tax payers' do not pay any income tax whatsoever and whatever taxes they do pay through payroll, property, etc don't amount to much. Who wouldn't be for "free" healthcare when someone else is footing the bill.

The American system works fine but, we need to find methods to reduce the price burden. In order to reduce the price one must understand what is driving that cost up. In this entire thread, I have seen no evidence of WHY the costs are going up. Most would simply attribute this to some level of greedy on behalf of the insurance companies.

Now, we must admit one bit of truth before we (Americans) can really have a discussion. We don't pay for what we consume: Health care is unique in that neither the service provider nor the patient gets the bill, especially when insurance out-of-pocket maximum provisions are reached. The patient who is directly involved in the transaction has little incentive to control costs when out-of-pocket costs are removed. When insurance companies try to do so, it can lead to arbitrary limits on care, time-consuming hurdles for more expensive procedures and additional bureaucracy for doctors. Even then, it’s easy to game the system.


One possible solution is moving away from fee-for-service provider reimbursement and returning to a staff-model health maintenance organization (HMO), where providers employed by the health plans are charged with offering patients the most cost-efficient care without compromising quality. Two studies have found that this model works quite well. A 2002 paper in the British Medical Journal (BMJ), Getting More for Their Dollar: A Comparison of the NHS with California’s Kaiser Permanente,” compared HMO provider Kaiser and Britain’s National Health System (NHS), concluding that Kaiser achieved better outcomes than the NHS for similar inputs. And a 2003 study in the BMJ, Hospital Bed Utilization in the English NHS, Kaiser Permanente, and the US Medicare Program: Analysis of Routine Data which reported on hospital stay lengths, produced similar conclusions.



It's okay Tegumi, still you love in that general platonic sort of way. Thank you pointing out my error though.

I'm not quite sure what your point here is; unless you consider "higher class" to mean the top 51+% of Americans, you have no leg to stand on. Also, as Fiery_penguin_of_doom pointed out (+rep when I can and remember) at least 50% of "taxable citizens" pay no taxes, so I doubt their vote is being co-opted by anti-government healthcare lobbies. Hell, if I could get free stuff, I'd be voting for it too.

Also, we both know corporations don't vote so stop pretending.

[font=verdana][color=green]You're making highly generalised comments, FPoD. One thing that I hate, I'm afraid, is when people from outside Europe i.e. the rest of the world, group us all together like that. Britain is different from France, just as France is different from Poland. The point remains is that Europe is a highly diverse portion of the world, in the world's smallest continent. I would like it if you showed more respect to it.

However, despite that, I acknowledge your point with regards to the American system failing when it tried to incorporate Medicare etc. But yet, I still feel that the reason why the system started to fail was because that America tried to compromise; they should have either left Medicare out or incorporated free health care entirely.

I already know that the NHS has shortcomings, but I still believe that some cases like that won't mean that the NHS will stop to function. However, in regards to the Organs Scandal, you fail to mention that a new law was enacted to combat that scandal, by way of the Human Tissue Act 2004. Also, $17million isn't trivial by itself, but it the grand scale of things, it is; you can't expect every single penny to be spent exactly right. There is always waste; America should know of this full well. In response to the denying life-saving drugs point raised by yourself, I can only respond by saying that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". If these drugs were prioritised, then many others would be without, causing more scandal. "They're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't".

SUPER EDIT: Oh yes, I forgot that I found this interesting report. Whilst you highlight some wasted funds that the NHS has done, you'll find that the UK is the most efficient health service out of the countries examined and the second best overall.