[Locked] vegetarians are the real murderers?

I may not fully agree with vegetarians but that sort of language is unnecessary and unproductive. Before you mention someone elses age you should act more mature yourself.

I'm sorry I'm too busy enjoying my animal muscle to hear you.

The first thing that irritates me about that statement is the "My species" part. When things like that are said, my hand just balls up into a fist. I can't describe it, its a subconscious reaction. Despite any benefit of the doubt, no one should ever even consider referring to the human species as "my species." I don't even need to point out the idiocy of the statement and I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Think about what you say, before you say it.

Now with that out of the way, it seems to me you don't understand the concept of the food chain. Its an ecological system that is illustrated through the feeding habits of species in that particular species. I suppose you can say we are at the top of a food chain, and the operative word being "a" seeing as how we eat whatever the fuck we want. Its not the fact that other species are unable to eat us, its that we've isolated ourselves in a society where it is highly improbable that we will be eaten by another species. If we were in the wild, it would be very difficult to maintain this "top of the food chain" status, as members of the species are being dragged off by packs of wild animals for sustenance on a daily basis. In the way of animals, the majority of our diet consists of either herbivores or omnivores. I'll admit, we do eat some carnivores, but some such as big cats and wild dogs aren't exactly popular items on menus at restaurants. The fact of the matter is that many carnivores that can be classified as man-eaters turn to eating humans as an easier method of getting food when they are either injured, there is a shortage of their normal prey, or when illness or natural physical ailments hinder their abilities. That being said, I'd highly doubt that any human is rightfully "at the top of any food chain."


Bullshit... just because we can think about shit and decide things based on more than instinct doesn't mean we aren't predatory animals. By definition a predator is any organism that exists by preying upon other organisms. Like it or not, even if we don't actively seek out our prey doesn't mean we're not predators. We're just more passive in our predatory nature. That's why rapists, murderers, and other criminals exist, to compensate for their suppressed desires to hunt prey.


This is a terrible thread. Not just because of the nature of the topic, but because it flaunts pretty much emphasizes every egocentric aspect of the human species. We're at the top of the food chain, we're the most dominant species, we're the only species with morals, its just fucking endless. Then there's the idiocy that plants don't feel and all this other shit, it just fucking sickening. After attempting to sort out all of the bullshit that's been said, I was just overwhelmed. By doing that, I alone could keep the fucking Huns out of Fakku. Mankind has a long way to go in the way of empathy and just common awareness towards other living things.

This sentence bugged me... Are you implying plants do feel pain?

Your comment that humans think they are superior sickens you also nagged at my attention. Even wild animals feel pride and there is nothing wrong with displaying your achievements. I have doubts about humans being the most virtuous but the fact that we are the most intelligent of all the species is true and it seems to me we do have the right to call ourselves dominant after looking at the planet.

Also, why do you find the words "my species" irratating? There seems to be nothing wrong with it. If you are human you have the right to call yourself a part of the entity known as the human species and it seems "my species" is perfectly okay.

If you think about it humanity sucks, that and we fucked up the planet for all species.

My personal view is we are the dominant species because we can adapt better than any animal. If we were to give a letter grade on different aspects of survival. We get a C in everything but, we get an A+ in adaptation. We inhabit every corner of the earth every hospitable and inhospitable environment. No other animal has been able to do that.



I agree with this. What is wrong with referring to the species that I belong to as "my species"? I refer to my family I live with as "my family" the same goes with everything else. So where is the problem?



Hey, thanks for repeating my high school biology teacher. Your assumption about my knowledge of ecosystems and food chains was wrong, I actually passed my biology and my ap bio classes with A's. Though I should have been a little more clear about what I was saying in relation to the food chain. I guess I meant "top" as in we are the dominant predator and no other animal actively hunts us.

Adaptation, in a nutshell, is any change in the structure or functioning of an organism that makes it better suited to its environment. Typically, we change our surroundings to better suit us. Since we've begun developing technology, we've haven't had much need to "adapt."


Your family and the human species are two different cases. When you're talking about your family, you would normally say "my family" when talking to people who aren't related to you. However, when you're talking to other people about the species, you're talking to another member of the species. That being said, its more suitable to say something along the lines of "our species."


Most true predators don't even consider humans as prey unless they're not physically unable to hunt their natural prey, I believe I already said that. Just because we aren't actively hunted doesn't mean we're not on the menu. The thing is that the majority of human ecosystems are isolated from nature and humans typically avoid areas where there are animals that would hunt them. I'm not saying you're completely wrong, I'm just saying that you're not taking into account the whole picture.

Like I said, as a species we are predators, that's something I won't deny. We are apex predators, but that is only because of the circumstances in which we live. Mankind has only found its dominance in these ecosystems because we are, essentially, the ones who built them. Basically, we eat animals that we specifically raise to slaughter, not hunt. However, that's all beside the point. The reason I am so critical of our position as predators is because in our day to day lives, we do not rely on predation for survival. The humans that do actual hunt their food on a natural basis, we have come to refer to as savages. Our classification as alpha predators, by definition is situational. If we were placed in another ecosystem, our dominance would most likely be overshadowed by predators that are more conditioned to hunting on a day to day basis. Realistically speaking, the vast majority of humans, without all the technology that we've come to rely on to make our lives easier, are in a shitload of trouble.

Getting A's in classes doesn't reflect actual knowledge. I passed my bio classes too. I didn't get A's, but that was because I wasn't there half the time, but if I was I would've. You don't learn everything in school. I won't sell you're wisdom short, you could know everything there is to know about the subject, but by the way you talk, it shows a very restricted understanding.

Now, your just splitting hairs my friend.



I condense things down assuming people will just be able to connect the dots and get the general idea. Its a bad habit, I know. I should explain better but, then we would also get tl;dr like you and I usually get since we are the most long winded people here.

What do you mean splitting hairs?


Well people who are always saying tl;dr are just lazy. I personally don't care if someone doesn't want to read what I write because of its length. If a person is part of an intellectual conversation, they should be ready to encounter long posts. In a serious discussion, sometimes you need to go deeper into what you're saying.

Sorry to butt into your conversation, just for the explanation, the splitting hair term is a common one in Germany. It means as much as overstepping being a perfectionist, just to keep your own opinion / to argue too much into the detail.
Anyways, explanation done, have fun continuing. It is a good read :)

What do you mean splitting hairs?[/quote]

nit-picking over details that don't really have an impact on the topic at hand. Like if I made off hand remarks about someones grammar when having a serious conversation. Its a minor detail, which I honestly can't believe we are discussing it.

nit-picking over details that don't really have an impact on the topic at hand. Like if I made off hand remarks about someones grammar when having a serious conversation. Its a minor detail, which I honestly can't believe we are discussing it.[/quote]

Sorry, but its always been one of those things that I get a little wiggy about.

perfectly understandable. Everyone has that "thing" that sets them off. I'd be a hypocrite if I criticized you about that. As long as there are no hard feelings then, thats all that matters. (this goes for everyone I "debate" with)

let's just use the substitution method and sum things up.

lion eats pig
lion = animal specie

human eats pig
human = animal specie

pig eats plant
pigs = animal specie

human eats plants
human = animal specie

to eat is to survive

humans are just animals, we eat to survive, so do animals that feed on plants/meat or both.

Saying that we kill other animals to eat is murder is just plain wrong because other animals also kill to eat, thus ensuring their survival.

WE'RE ALL JUST ANIMALS! We eat meat and plants to survive. It's just so happen that science proved that we are evolutionary superior than the other animal specie which explains why we cook meat before we eat it.


let's all just eat healthily and enjoy life as we go on with it.



edit*
sorry, I didn't read all of the post here, it's too long. XD
I just wanted to post what is in my mind right now regarding the topic.
^_^V

I think I'll stick with the "Fuck vegetarians" maxim: For every animal you don't eat, I'll eat three.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor

I think most people who turn vegetarian isn't because they believe in animal rights but because of religion or health reasons. It's much more healthier to be a vegetarian (diary included, or else I'd call you a vegan, which is real bad for the body) since you can get the same nutrients in a healthier manner.

Except for protiens and B vitamins. Unless you eat a lot of tofu and eggplant and take vitamin supplements.
Although, different people work differently, so you can't really say that all humans should eat one way. We are all basicly the same creatures, but there are certain traits that evolved differently for one reason or another.

Ok this just made me hit my head against my keyboard for a few minutes. I have no problem with vegetarians (vegans are just fucking nuts, I don't get them, I don't think being vegan is healthy at all and it's kinda against human nature if you think about it.) I have a problem with the asses who tell me, that I am a murder because I eat meat. I'm an omnivore damnit all! It's human nature!


Now on to something funny. I live thirty minutes from the headquarters of PETA (it's Norfolk, VA). One of the local radio stations, (FM99) used to hold an annual fishing tournament on the pier right next to the PETA building and boy did it make PETA unhappy. Though it made the rest of us laugh are asses off. Unfortunately they had to stop in recent years, but it was funny as hell to stick to the uptight fuckers (and yes they are uptight, no animal bi-product was allowed in the building...friend of mine used to work there) Zealots need to lay the fuck off and that goes in everything.


And on another note, what the hell is up with Soy Milk, it's not milk, you can't milk a soybean, it's Soy Juice. Now where is my moo-cow fuck milk. (and rep to anyone who guesses where this train of thought came from)