Why Do Americans Still Fear Muslims?

Wow you're totally missing what i'm saying. Again.You're empiricism seems more like conclusions based of ignorant observations to me. Seeing something i'm not trying to say or do.

You recently made a thread about if you argue because you just want to be right. Well here we have a shining example.



And this is the most retarded logic i have ever witnessed. If only i could use this logic in my exams then i'd get an A all the time. It's not MY job to go out and try and de-bunk you. When you made that post you're the one trying to convince ME or the OP, or whoever. It's not the other way around buddy.

You accused me of making an ignorant sweeping generalization that I never made(I.E. Tibetan buddhists don't bomb people). I pointed out that you were incorrect in assuming what you said detracted from what I said in any way, and you're saying "Well I wasn't making that point anyway."

Seriously, learn to remain coherent.

You recently made a thread about if you argue because you just want to be right. Well here we have a shining example.[/quote]

We certainly do, in you.





And if that were the only justification I used, I would completely agree with you. however you went ahead and quoted me out of context(rather dishonestly) and completely disregarded that I informed you of several things that back up my statements, including the biographies of the 9/11 hijackers, which you can look up, and I did FOR you, as they're under the "Case Study" information in the link I provided, and that I had read the Quran, and have seen the passages used to justify martyrdom myself.

Are you ready to admit you're wrong yet?

Wait wait wait i see where you're getting muddled up.

"Think about it. Where are the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers?" and then me posting evidence for so, you think supports the validations of your argument?

Right. Moving on.

Lol, your inability to accept when you perform dishonest tactics(quoting me out of context just to say I'm illogical) and when you're wrong(Yes in fact, pointing out that there are some instances of splintered disavowed Buddhist bombers that aren't really heard about in comparison to the multi-terrorist cell sponsored reoccurring bombings done by Muslims that go on television and say 'WE DID IT!' illustrates my point perfectly) Is just...absolutely amazing. We really should move on, as you're simply being petty.

Edit: the phrasing of "supports the validations of your argument" is semantically incoherent. the correct phrasing is "Supports the soundness of the premises of your argument" is correct. I still understood what you meant...but you were the one that claimed I was incoherent before...so right back at ya. ;)

And i never said anything about you being illogical?

You really love putting words in my mouth.

I also find funny your profanity with Muslims.

You're basing your opinion of what it seems like prejudice. Muslims do hardly any "terror" attacks, certainly not to the degree you have been touting. It's easy to point out and alienate any radical group of a denomination. Everyone would think Christians are whack if we just based it solely on fundamentalists. The bible in it's scripture also advocates incest, adultery and slavery, yet we don't condemn Christians who commit incest, slavery and adultery to being a flaw of Christianity do we now? It's because people are rational creatures.

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/09/some_good_news_about_islamic_terror

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Venn%20diagram%20of%20Islam%20and%20America.jpg

No, just paraphrasing exactly what you said, and I quote "And this is the most retarded logic i have ever witnessed. If only i could use this logic in my exams then i'd get an A all the time."



Let's put a hold on that one.

The most recent suicide bomber attack? 2 days ago. Swabi, Pakistan, secular politician, his son, and one other are all dismantled by...a suicide bomber.

Making shit up does not fly. ;) And before you say "Well that's just ONE attack in so long!" Here's a list of attacks in...the past 2 months. Granted, not all of them are suicide bombers...but a good bit are. And ALL of the attacks...suicide bombing or not...are religiously motivated. I mean, just SIX days ago we have this little gem. Iraq Baqubah 10 40 A double suicide attack leaves ten Iraqis dead. The second blast was intended to kill victims fleeing the first.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks



I'm not, I'm saying that the religion itself promotes this kind of violence. Again, the 9.11 hijackers were inspired by what? Say it with me, hanging out at their mosque, and hearing about how evil infidel culture is, and how great martyrs have it in the afterlife.

Does it need to be any clearer than that?



You obviously haven't read my post just one page ago where I address this exact argument. would you mind not forcing me to repeat myself and actually educate yourself on what I've already said before blurting out this verbal nonsense?



I do, whenever someone says the bible is a good book(which is the christian message) I point to all this horrible stuff and go, "Is that so?". I mean, you ARE aware that once upon a time the bible WAS used as justification for slavery...right? and it was called out on its bullshit back then, just like I call Islam out on its bullshit now. It's no different.



Yes, for the most part, except when it comes to religious beliefs. Who was it that said "If you can get people to believe absurdities, you can get them to commit atrocities"? I believe...voltaire...yes I'm fairly certain.

Again, nothing you're saying is in any way new to the tired old arguments I've been hearing, and I addressed them on the page before, right beneath K-1.

It's nice to see you're quoting a propaganda site, simply shows how misinformed and prejudiced you really are. Go back to what I said about Jihad if you bothered to read it before that is.

Yes, a factual list of events is propaganda. No wait, that's absolute bullshit.



Yeah, that's really applicable. Especially since Muslims firebombed another office of a media outlet they don't like this week.



You're just making yourself look bad.


Also, regarding your comment on "The bible says these things, why don't we bash Christianity?"
Well, the magazine that was bombed was well known to bash on all religions. Muslims are the only ones who have attacked them; multiple times.

I read your post, it was neg repped for a reason, it's factually incorrect.

Hell I already gave a link earlier citing the bullshit idea that 9/11 was politically motivated, the case study on the bombers showed that they couldn't give a shit about politics, and that their sole motivation was the demonization of infidel culture, and the pleasures that await martyrs.

And as far as this "Internal struggle" And that Jihad has 2 faces bullshit? Even MUSLIMS say that's incorrect.

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f44/hadith-authentication-greater-and-lesser-jihad-14200/

And if you're going to say a muslim site is spreading propoganda against muslims...then you're just being a straight up denialist.

Has BigLundi actually READ the entire Qur'an? If not, I wouldn't take anything he says at face value.

Why do Americans still fear Muslims?



Why indeed! :)

Here's Exhibit A of someone who has bought into the propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

How many American Muslims are taking to our streets calling for the death of America? Not very many. I won't say that there are none (because there are always exceptions to the rule), but we have large communities of Muslims who are thoroughly Americanized and love this country as much as the next citizen. You're making the error of conflating culture with religion, which are interrelated but not identical.

Also, keep in mind that Iran is run by Iranians, and the government of Iran opposes the United States: it's tickled pink whenever its citizens protest or hold rallies against the United States. Anti-US sentiment is something that they encourage and capitalize on. However, Tibet is run by China, and China is Not Amused whenever Tibetans try to demonstrate against it. Therefore, it puts down any dissent with an iron fist. I'm sure there are plenty of Tibetans who hate China, but don't pour out into the streets calling for blood because they'll take two the chest and one to the head for their troubles.

If you look objectively at who's done what since the beginning of the millennium, the United States has been, without contest, the most aggressive nation. We invaded two countries and have carried out unlawful military actions in others. But THEY'RE the dangerous ones, right? Let's just keep telling ourselves that.

Factually incorrect my ass - 9/11 was politically motivated, so is all terrorism, it always has been - ever since the days of Guy Fawkes. It was negative repped because people can't handle the truth.

Any sane person would call that site a pile of propaganda - and as far as the two facets of Jihad are concerned different groups believe in different things - there is no single sect of true believers, people interpret things differently which is why there are many sects in all sorts of religions, I don't see the point behind disproving the two facets of Jihad either - because the facet that concerns us here is the one that says "Attack when Attacked".

Go learn a thing or two about the cold war before you decide to spread BS and outright deny that terrorism is politically motivated.


In response to your assertion that the bombers didn't care about politics - I can assure you their boss Osama certainly did - you also mentioned previously that a lot of terrorists seem to be well educated people - certainly most well educated people do not blow themselves up to get to heaven.

You AR aware that there are two other important documents in Islam besides the Quran...right? There's also the Hadith and the Sirah. The Quran actualy isn't meant to be read alone, and regularly references both documents. So while I have read these documents...it's not as easy as reading the bible XD.



YEAH MAN! FUCKIN GOVERNMENT WANTS TO KEEP PEOPLE DOWN AND COVER UP THE TRUTH!

Seriously, do you have anything better to offer than "You lie, governmnet dunnit, cause they're big, evil, and corporation-like!"

Also, you are aware Guy Fawkes bombed Parliament for religious reasons right? He wanted the Pope to take control of Britain's government system, or, more accurately, the Catholic church.



I understand, a site shows you that you are factually incorrect in your assessment of Islam, and you just brush it off with "It's propoganda" Clearly I'm not arguing with an adult.



Yet every time Muhammed uses the term "jihad" in later parts of the Sirah, it is EXPLICIT that he's talking about...attacking other people...and nonbelievers...look, your whole, "Wel, some muslims just don't believe the same as others" nonsequitor aside, you really didn't offer anything other than "lalala, you're wrong, I'm right" in this one.



I didn't say ALL terrorism isn't politically motivated, don't put words in my mouth. What YOU are doing is saying that none of it has anything to do with religion, which is factualy incorrect.




Here you show just how little you know about the facts. Your insistent need to paint the government as the big bads that are the cause for everything has literally shown you didn't give SHIT ONE to even investigate the 9/11 bombers, who actually were NOT members of Al Qaeda. they were just 12 guys, who wanted to kill infidels, and marty themselves so they got their virgins. That's what ALL the facts say, that's what the case study ABOUT them says.

You are aware that the Quran is of far more importance than any other source - The Quran is meant to be read alone it is considered a complete book - the only reason people look at Hadith is because they consider the prophet as an example to be followed - The Quran does not reference the Hadith .. they were compiled long after the Quran was revealed.... It is as easy as reading the Bible if not easier since you don't have to go through both the old and new testaments.

Talking rot as usual mate!

Wow, you really have NO idea what you're talking about. Interesting.

the facts ACTUALLY are that, firstly, the Hadith is actually MORE sacred to Islam than the Quran, as it gives them their traditions, and is the foundation of Sharia Law, and the Sirah refers to what Muhammed says...so that's kind of important to. The Quran, if you've ever read it, is literally just god's words, which regularly references the other two books. It's rather incoherent, unless you read all three.




I agree, we should take a REAL good look at you.



Not only do you ask a question that you already know the answer to, but the answer isn't even in your favor, home grown terrorists are a CONSTANT problem in America, and if you don't think so, you're kidding yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homegrown_terrorism#Training



Actually, in the case of Islam, they are identical, as Sharia Law, born of Islam, is a direct result of state enforced religion, which, by the by, is the same thing as having the religion of Islam...as your culture. I wouldn't make that error with Christianity and the U.S. because the U.S. Isn't run on christian principals, it's not run with the basis that christianity is superior to all other religions, and that christian law must be adhered to. I can't say the same thing...about Islamic countries.

Fucking hell, Saudi Arabia still beheads witches.



You are aware Iran isn't the ONLY PLACE Muslims hold protests right? you ARE aware that this is across the entire middle east right? Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, despite us going over there and making people unhappy, which you purport is the reason they're like that in the first place(which makes little sense, as they've been doing that since before 9/11).

Your funny little conspiracy theory that the only rteason Tibetans don't protest and swarm the streets is because they're afraid of the chinese government is...exceedingly ignorant. The tibetans live in relative peace, they spend their days farming, trading, and carrying along with their lives. Here's the facts. you can't point to a doctrine in Buddhism that would encourage Buddhists to a violent orgy of hate like in Islam. you simply can't do it. In Islam? I can.

Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

And yes, you can point to other verses that promote peace, but I'll just come back with more verses that promote violence. the most you'd do in that situation is show just how inconsistent the Quran is s don't bother, as it doesn't detract from my point at all.

If you honestly don't think the fundamentals of Islam cause problems...I have to wonder what reality you think you're living in.



Has it ever occurred to you, sir, that BOTH the religious fundamentalists, AND out of control governments could be dangerous? Of course not. you think the only people that could POSSIBLY dislike the religion of Islam are those stereotypical rednecks in the south, and everyone else is just 'blinded by the propoganda". It's kind of ironic really...in saying that americans don't buy into stereotypes, you invoked a stereotype...

Actually it's the other way around. The Hadith is often used to clarify the Quran, as well as it is a book of it's own. The Sirah is supposedly made up from quotes and sayings from, not only, Muhammed, but from people who have formed the islamic faith. Several parts of the Sirah can be traced back to both christian and jewish texts. (no surprise there though.)

And no, no book is more sacred than the Quran. The Hadith however is the basis for the Sharia-laws, and is used in everyday occurrences way more often than the Quran.

"Wow, you really have NO idea what you're talking about. Interesting."

I'm not even going to bother continuing this argument - since you seem to be missing the point - ALL TERRORISM IS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED - religion itself is a policy, but using one religion as an umbrella term for all its forms is wrong. Do you even understand what something "political" is?

because the facet that concerns us here is the one that says "Attack when Attacked". ... Umm yeah that's what I was talking about not the first facet, I'm saying Islam says attack when attacked - which is what most people do - which is what the American Government has done on numerous occasions - ever heard of the fight or flight response?

I'm not going to act like an expert on what was going through the 9/11 bombers minds - I know they were lunatics driven by a violent ideology that does not represent Islam. I like how you seem to have factually established that they were simply in it for the virgins - did you psychoanalyze them yourself?

Sorry if I hurt your feelings when I called your reliable source a piece of propaganda perhaps you should ask what other people think

Just read your second post
WTF .. the Hadith? more sacred than the Quran? YOU ARE INSANE .. seriously .. you've lost your marbles. No point reasoning with somebody as ill-informed as you say what you like you clearly know nothing about Islam

Then you're in direct opposition to Muslims ,as whenever I tell a Muslim I've read the Quran, they simply shake their head and say, "IT doesn't matter, until you read the Hadith."

You know by sacred, I don't mean holy, right? Or did you just equivocate the two because you felt like it? the quran is the holy book, the Hadith is the sacred texts, and Sirah helps to form Islamic history. All three are incredibly important, and the Hadith is more important in everyday lives, as WELL as helping to clarify the Quran.

So...yes...I do know what I'm talking about. thanks though.



Ok, so you're saying that if I were to do something in order to go to heaven...that's...a political move?

you kow what? Fine, we'll go with that. So Islam is just politics, fine, Islamic politics are the cause ot fundamentalist violence then. Your little semantic word game doesn't detract from MY point at all.



Well, I'd be ok if Jihad just meant attacking people who are attacking you...unfortunately that's not how it's EVER used. It IS worded that way though, the fun part is where being attacked constitutes...well...simply being around other people who don't share your customs, according to Islam. I mean, Islam is intolerant of...ALL religions that isn't Islam. Fuck, look at Mecca, it's literally illegal not to be a muslim and be there at any time.



BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! I CALL BULLSHIT SO HARD ON YOU! It SO DOES REPRESENT ISLAM! It's an ideology that represented EVERY SINGLE THING they were taught at their mosque. you are such a fucking denialist it's not even funny.



No, I read case studies by experts who DID figure out their motivations through talking to their friends, families, and getting the bomber's histories. did you even bother looking at the link I gave concerning suicide bombing, and the subsection about islamic motivations?




I would be happy to accept that it's just propoganda...if you can...demonstrate that it is. Simpl saying, "Meh, it just is propoganda, so whatever." Isn't really an argument.



See above, you silly little boy.

So you've proven ... that a) you know nothing about Islam except for what a few people you've spoken to have told you.
b)That you don't understand the meaning of politics - I don't think this is a semantic argument it is the crux of what we're arguing over
c) All religions want to spread - - "there should be no compulsion in religion" ..not going to bother getting into this
d) .... that you can say the word Bullshit over and over
e) that you can call people names

I'm through talking to you - Enjoy the rest of your sad hateful life.