[Locked] Gambler's Appeal to All Fakku Members

lol indeed gambler is definately one of the better mods on here without a doubt

Ooh. Do I smell Amano Yoshitaka?
This thread is getting derailed .-. but this picture totally distracted me. Sorry.

The replies in this thread have proven two points, though I believe they are somewhat subtle, at least in my opinion.

First and foremost, it goes to show that most of us are able to have a decent debate (not argument) on a particular discussion. At the moment, there are two major camps in this thread, one which believes that things could turn out fine, and the other who sees my appeal as overly idealistic. Although the opinions of one camp differs from the other, replies were made in a civilised manner, or at least most of them.

The second point would be related to exchange between Ero-Sensei and HermitIV. Both parties mean well, but there are times when one's opinions could be wrongly interpreted by another, leading to conflict. The same can be said of sarcasm; one may see it as a joke while another may perceive the sarcasm as a form of personal attack. Which is why I recommend phrasing most of our replies in a friendly, less arrogant manner.



Waar, Angelus Lapsus and PersonDude are correct to say my appeal is overly idealistic. It is virtually impossible to create an utopia in any society, where people are friendly towards each other all the time. However, this ideal could be used as a benchmark for improving things on the forum. We may not be able to reach the ideal state, but we can always work towards it, just like the goals we have set for ourselves in life.

I am not seeking to change anyone. In fact, I respect all Fakku members as individuals who add flavour to the community, though I doubt anyone would like to experience a bitter taste all the time. Using Waar as an example, I respect him for raising his honest opinions on a lot of matters, but I also believe he is capable of bringing out the same points in perhaps a less hurtful manner to some.

I have never thought of Waar as the "worst of the worst" member on Fakku; no one is. This particular thread can be considered my own personal form of action to ensure that the community continues to thrive. Indeed, Fakku will continue to attract a wide range of members, provided there is a community for everyone to engage in. There could come a day where certain members become tired of all the rage and drama, choosing to leave or stop posting, which will be a loss to Fakku. I have seen the fall of many hentai forums due to inactivity, which is precisely the reason why I hope to prevent said day from coming.



AzulE05 has brought up an important point. Elites and Elders may be seen as role models to new users. If some of our negative behaviour are left unchecked, these new members could follow suit. Changing the culture of our community isn't going to take place overnight, but we have to start somewhere and this could be the very thread to do so.

In relation to my appeal to all, TehMikuruSlave's "inb4 shitstorm" thread: https://www.fakku.net/viewtopic.php?t=15425, is an example I would like to avoid. Instead of retorting in a harsh manner, which I have yet to see (thankfully), one can always choose to ignore said topic.

Lastly, it is unfair to say that I am a better Mod than anyone else. I can assure everyone that all the Mods on Fakku have the best interests at heart for the community and are doing their best to keep it going. It is just that their efforts may not have been detected by some of you, similar to the backstage crew of films and movies.

P.S. Again, it is getting late. I will try and address the issue of "Quoted replies" the next time I log on.

While there are two opinions on this subject, what's important if to find a balance. I'm a long time member, like many of the older member's here we've seen the evolution, and many of us this is not our first forum. When it comes to pornography, people like to keep their anonymity, specially in a very big & growing [size=15]free[/h] site like this one. Some people though, have broken a bit of the anonymous aspect and open up to the people like them in these forums. We are going through what all site goes through, but it's impossible to go back to the ''old days''. While we can improve things, many site have taken different routes. Some have completely revamp rules, more moderation, etc. But while we do want to improve this community, this is first a hentai site. People come and go, lurk, leech, fap. They get their sexual pleasure and then leave. Many have sign up just to leech off the user upload section, and then one day, out of boredum post things. Lets be honest most of us started that way anyway.

While we say that the Elite and Elder should help the newer dedicated members to fit in this community, I agree to some degree. Many things can be seen in the eyes of a new member when it comes to titles. I have my specific section, people don't know me much, but people who venture into the gaming section I'm mostly there all the time and I often post in topics written in there. Though i only post about game that I know about and experienced. Nothing bugs me more about an opinion when its comes to a situation when the said person did no research and knows absolutely knowing about the subject, but only talks about what they fell in their ''guts''. Reason why I don't often post in other section, cuz i know nothing unlike some other people. And back on the title subject, titles don't mean anything. A recommendation I've done in the beginning of the Mote Mote battle this year was the not allow post count during the battles. I've seen people post count go from 100 to 250 within 24 hour because they just spam the crap out of the fights. Posting pics that have been posted at lest 10 times. So a new member see's someone with an Elder title because he posted like - 10 post of pictures in the 30ish battles, that's still about 300 post. It doesn't mean he's a good forum user that should be respected. The only thing he did was spam pictures. I know a lot of people will feel targeted, I've done it too. I could even link you the topic where I did it, but i realized that it effected the whole forums so I quickly stopped.

On Gambler's subject - While he does look like the only mod alive in the forums I know that the others are still looking through the forums very actively. Not everyone contributes in a way that everyone can see. For example people who actually donate to Jacob to help pay for the server's. I don't know who did donate, and how much, but I've donated a pretty good amount, which I won't go into. But this is just to show that, while I'm not the most known person in this site, this place is run and helped by a lot of people & its community. But it is THOSE people who are actually visible who need to help with the evolution of this site.

So anyway, here's some ideas with my bad english

In a nutshell. Things can't be perfect but, we can make it a little bit better over time.

I've had a lot of thoughts on this subject lately, and I haven't been able to put my thoughts into words, until now. The words came to me, and I can finally say my mind. Sorry that it's so long.

I can understand saying stupid shit on Youtube or 4chan, where no one really knows anyone else, but doing it on forums, where people try to befriend one another, is like going into the Science Fiction Club's meeting and saying that all the members are dorks. It's not being funny; it's just bullying.

Insulting someone on Youtube is like insulting a random person on the street. The person can walk away without caring about your words at all. But insulting someone on a forum is like insulting someone in a club, a group of people gathered around because of shared interests, who are opening themselves up a bit, letting people know who they really are while leaving themselves vulnerable. Making an account on a site just so you can call people idiots or upset people is no different than joining a club just so you can call the other members idiots and upset them. The only difference is that one happens in real life and one happens over the internet. Both are examples of bullying.

I think too often, people online fail to realize that not everyone is being completely fake on the internet. I'm not fake when I come to Fakku. Because there's no reason to be fake. I like who I am, and I share myself online, just the way I am. So, I try to act as if everyone is being themselves online, even if everyone isn't. That keeps me from throwing mud at people when I'm in a bad mood. I used to do that, go online and call people idiots whenever I felt bad, goad people into stupid arguments about whether God exists or if the poor deserve any help or if fucking twelve-year-olds isn't all that bad. But taking your problems out on other people isn't any sort of solution, and hurting other people for enjoyment isn't any sort of real enjoyment. It's just bullying, and whatever the reason, it's bad.

People can be assholes. That's fine. Everyone's free to do what they want. But how can people who troll and bully others justify what they're doing? Getting into fights, just to have fun? How is that fun? "Oh, I made that fucker cry, I'm a real internet badass." Who the hell cares? That's the same as being glad that you beat up a guy who happened to be walking past you. Taking pleasure in another person's pain isn't cool. It doesn't make you cool. You're not a better person because you can hurt other people. So why do it?

If I'm arguing with someone, I do feel good, because I tend to be good at arguing, and it feels good to do things that we're good at. No brainer. But if I result to name-calling, or ad hominem attacks, I lose. Because it takes no skill to call someone an idiot. I've found that it takes a lot of skill to say "I disagree with you" and not call the person stupid. At least, I assume that it takes a lot of skill, because very rarely have I seen it done, online or offline.

If you want to have fun, then watch something, read something, or play something. If you're angry, then play a violent video game. Don't belittle people just because you're bored or upset. There are better things to do, and I pity any person who thinks that being a bully is more fun than playing a game or reading a good book.

well i wanted to say the same thing but you already said it first shaggy.
well it's not cool to take out your anger by making other people fell bad bout themself, and sometime there is some people that take internet so seriously and that's why there is always certain someone that really sad / even cry when they were harrassed in the internet, but after all it came back to the person itself, because they have a freedom to chose become someone that want to befriend all or to be some asshole that make other people cry.

I guess the same can be said for my and I always believe if you want people to respect you, you should also show respect to them....

I don't want to write much, but let's keep the forum here nice and friendly. Of course there are certain times when it is required to be strict too so people could get the message but not in a way that is rude and unethical in manner, but in a sense how strong the message that we are trying to convey.

From the day I join the forum I always believe Fakku is a very big family and we should take good care of each other. Who cares what the other forum is like, this is Fakku why should we follow others... in fact let's show them we are a much more better community than them despite being a hentai/18+ website.(though I'm pretty much sure not all of the members are even 18....)

Oh and nice images there Gambler :)

Can't this be a sticky or something?

This is a reply to shaggy, if you don't feel like reading my long ass reply feel free to scroll down the where to lines are, that's when I make my general post referring to this thread.

LOLOLOL Shaggy, what color is the sky in your world? Trolling isn't often as black and white as you make it, often it's shades of gray, and possibly gray-blue at times.

Let's look at your post: Anonymous is the same here on fakku as it is on 4chan; the only difference being that some choose to divulge more about themselves (like photos, and a user name). Calling someone an idiot on fakku is nothing like calling everyone in a club a dork... For example look at bluesummers, he called everyone fat nerd virgins and was destroyed in a holy shitstorm that got started by internet vagina (no matter how much i love Rukia, her words carry more value in the community due to her having a vag). Trolls who do something similar to that often post a few times and disappear forever, which seems to have happened in this case. The better analogy would be to compare insulting someone on fakku to joining the science club, watching a member do something stupid and calling that person stupid for doing so... it's aggressive and causes conflict in reality as it does here, but it's not targeting a group, which your analogy implied; it also leads to the reason why often others from the community are willing to go along with it, because they agree/like to follow/don't like being left out. You're only half right about it being bullying: the reason it's not bullying is because on the internet everyone is equal, if said "noob" was smart and good at arguing (which he very well could be) he would be able to defend himself, the main reason it would also be considered bullying is because those of us who do things like that often pick on those we know to be unable to defend themselves (freenadia for example).

It's true, not everyone is completely fake, but some of us are and who are you to judge those people for not wanting to throw the real person behind the monitor on a website for cartoon porn? You sound awfully high and mighty when you talk about yourself and how open you are. Some of the admins haven't shared who they are, and act differently here than they do in the real world, are you better than they are because you like to show up to cons dressed as a cartoon porn super hero? Let's be honest, you aren't. You surf the internet your way and others surf their way; so leave it at that. The high horse attitude doesn't suit you.

You seem to confuse two key points here, trolling and being argumentative are two different things. I don't say the things I say to hurt people, I say them to win an argument, one of the many tactics in winning said arguments is to make the other user get angry and lash out, because when someone loses their cool on the internets: you win. I really don't believe anyone says "Oh, I made that fucker cry, I'm a real internet badass" I'm pretty sure you don't think so either. The thrill of winning an argument is probably one of the best feelings in the world, it's like a true emotional high, the feeling of knowing you're right with 150% certainty, the feeling you get when a third party agrees with you, the feeling you get when someone starts to post in all caps or starts insulting your family members... if anyone just said they didn't like how it feels then they're probably liars.

Which brings up your next point... you DO like to argue, and I've clashed "swords" with you in the past; I'm pretty sure I've even seen you trash on a noob or two as well... When did God absolve you of your past? (i know you aren't religious)

Final thought on your post, what give you the right to decide how others should enjoy themselves? If someone feels like being an ass on the internets: let them, you don't have to read their posts, nor do you have to let their posts affect you. You know I enjoy a good argument with you and I do hope you intend to continue reading my posts but I feel your candy coated world which you outlined by that diabetic coma inducing posts is nothing but a glorified self blowjob.

Also, not trying to fight with you, so if anything came off and aggressive or insulting they weren't meant to do so.
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For those of you who didn't have the time/care/feel the need to read my above post the gist of it is that I don't agree with shaggy on about 75% of what he said. I would really like to see some sort of golden age of Fakku return, but as I've stated before I really don't believe it's going to happen; the community has grown far too much. For example, this very post saw a mini drama fest start up, the post was made to counter the very thing people decided to post, would you like to know why? Because people can't agree 100% of the time, someone will always disagree with someone else, on every point and in arguing their point someone will undoubtedly say something which will cause another party to be offended, and thus the snowball effect. The only real solution to the issue Gam raised is to 1. shut down fakku (bad option) 2. Moderate the fuck out of posts, mod edits (wont happen, jacob hates that type of moderation) 3. Hire more competent staff who are dedicated to helping new members in the most open sections of our forum (random, IB, SD... anything that should be considered general) in that case they could move threads and lock derailed threads faster (probably the best option). The mods would have to be people willing to put aside their personal history, and also not jump the gun in terms of certain moderation; too much could kill Fakku.

So I guess that is enough for my long winded post, i'm looking forward to seeing how long this thing is when i submit it. Also, I do hope this idea works, I will not be standing in it's way I just believe it wont achieve it's many lofty goals.

I have to agree with Waar's point, the forum purpose is for each one to express themselves the way they like to. You want to open your heart for us? Good. You want to fake yourself? It's good too.

Trying to change that, so everything will be nice and beautiful is the same as making a country go comunist. In theory, everything will be beautiful ad everyone will be equal, but you will be taking out the right of being who you want to be. So, i'm sorry Gambler and Shaggy, but that won't be happening, because ppl think different, act different and are different from each other.

And regarding the "bringing back the good times", it won't be happening either, for various reasons already mentioned in other posts. I've seen that same issue arise in a couple forums already, and you know what happened?

1) Oldfags became a little group apart from the forums, the said *noobs* "took over" the forum and the oldfags started to leave the forums, one by one, because it wasn't anymore "what it used to be".

2) Oldfags started to rule over the forums enforcing the rules created by themselves to achieve the goal that was "bringing back the good old times". The result was obvious, in the end, there were only themselves in the forum.

So, let's stop dreaming about the past, idealizing it as the golden age and all that shit and try to accept the others the way they are, use that little trick of "if you don't like it, just ignore it", and with a little respect, march towards a "new good time", because the old times are gone, and will not return.

I don't think being true to yourself online makes you a better person. I just don't understand why anyone would want to put on a mask and lie about themselves. Doing so seems like an indication that that person is unhappy, in some way. Not to say that everyone has to act online exactly the way they do in real life, but why would a friendly person in real life act like a jerk online, if not because of some sadness or anger that person has? If a person is a jerk in real life, and is a jerk online, that's understandable, but in real life or online, whenever a jerk shows, makes fun of people, and then hangs around, trying to befriend people, it confuses me. Because if a person's a jerk, the chances are slim that anyone will like him, and chances are, that person doesn't even like people. He probably only tries to talk to other people because of that primal urge to be around other people, and he doesn't try to be a better person so that people will actually want to be around him. To me, until that person is willing to not be a jerk, he doesn't deserve to be around others.

Moving onto the nature of arguments now - saying that you win an argument because you made the other person angry is wrong. Winning an argument requires logic and truth and the ability to explain your point of view without lashing out at the other person or hitting below the belt. As I said in the other post, that requires skill, and that is truly winning. It doesn't take any effort to make people mad. All you have to do is call people stupid and act like you're better than they are. And yes, it can be satisfying to upset someone, but it's pathetic to get pleasure from making someone angry. And it shows the people around you that you have a problem, that something is wrong in your life, that you have to hurt others to feel good. Plus, where does it stop? If calling people names over the internet feels good, then why not call people names in real life? Seeing someone in tears must be a better rush than getting someone to post in all caps. And why not beat the shit out of someone? That will really prove you're above others. And anyone that disagrees with you, who thinks that beating up other people isn't funny, they're beneath you, too, right? So you don't have to listen to their words.

Admittedly, that's not a sound argument, because it's a slippery slope, but I can't help noticing the similarities between the person who likes to anger people over the internet and the person who likes to play keep-away with people's hats and shove them in the mud.

Now, I do like to argue, but I prefer the term "debate," because when you "debate," it's not like two kids yelling at each other that one's wrong and the other's right. When you debate, the person who cries isn't automatically the loser. When you debate, the participants learn things from each other, and it's not about winning or losing, but about learning. And that isn't idealistic; it's mature.

And no, I'm not perfect. I wouldn't dare say that I am anywhere close to perfect. But I still have my ideas of how to do things, and I try to stick to them. When I don't, I often feel bad about it. And though I don't have any right to tell anybody else how to enjoy themselves, nobody has the right to tell me that I don't have the right to say something. Right?

A troll can say that no one should take the internet seriously, but if the troll wasn't taking his actions seriously, he wouldn't enjoy himself. If a person feels good that his post angered someone, then that person is taking the internet seriously. That's the funniest part of it all.

Anyways, Fakku has seen a lot of drama and tension recently, but I don't think there are serious problems ahead. I don't think a million shithead users will pop up and cause chaos. I don't even think that the problems seen recently are too bad. A couple of threads have had to be locked, but most of them were in Random. Almost every other section is completely fine.

Waar, earlier, you mentioned an iceberg that Fakku was heading towards, but I don't see any iceberg. I see some bits of ice that can damage the ship, but the damage is nothing that can't be repaired. There isn't some horrible future awaiting Fakku. More people will join, and all that means is that the forums will be busier. Even if one out of every ten new user is a troll, that's fine. It's been shown that trolls get handled nicely here. And if you truly think that Fakku will turn into a steaming pile of shit, then why do you come here? Why hang around a doomed ship?

For the fuck of it maybe. Just cause you might be unhappy doing that doesn't mean some guy won't have fun acting like a lonely house wife on a porn site.

Think of it as a fetish. Sadist, masochist, whatever. It seems that by your standards, if someone is acting in a way you dislike, they have a "problem."


You can't get punched over the internet.

To watch it sink.

Alright Ill try to condense it only commenting on your points.



You have it wrong, people don't act differently on the internet because of any personal strife... it's because they get to play out a part that they never get to play otherwise. Just as you put on your cape and hentai man clothes (probably not far from who you really are, but I'm sure you understand what acting is right?) some people enjoy putting on a face which is unlike their real face in every way. Also, being a jerk online does not always make people the most hated person around... I don't expect you to understand but being a dick often generates a form of respect from users; as long as that troll is good at what he does (no random name calling).



The true nature of winning an argument... you're completely wrong about it; The true nature of winning an argument is who can convince third parties they are correct first/who can convince more. When you and I argue I'm not trying to convince you of anything; in general you are already set on your point, which probably wont change no matter what I say. I'm trying to convince other users that I'm right and therefor your point is wrong. Often in a debate both points have merit, both points can be right... it's all about who sound more right, taking abortion for example, if you look at it from a completely non bias position they both raise good points and both are right to a certain extent so the true determining factor is who can convince the audience they are "more" right. We can't always be right so that implies that you in fact argue points that are wrong (as i do sometimes), the true test of skill is still being able to win an argument while pushing a cause which is wrong. Also your association with arguing and beating people up is absurd... People can defend themselves on the internet far better than in real life, mental fortitude is something everyone has, no matter how much of an idiot they are. I have more to say about the nature of argument but if I don't move on I will get stuck on this for a while.



No one has ever "debated" someone into changing their opinion online. Someone else said it a few weeks ago, whether you think of it as debating or arguing the real goal is to make others think you're right. Can you honestly tell me you've learned something from all the times we've argued? I can't pinpoint anything you have said which has made me think differently that I already did... Perhaps if you have then you are a rare gem of a person who is unlike the masses but i really doubt it. I just believe this point is laughable and I don't mean any offense by it but it's extremely naive.



Is this a serious question? It's completely hypocritical for you to tell others that you don't want them to post a certain way when you in fact post that way yourself... I can't believe you even brought this up... You're right Shag, you have the right to say something: but saying anything other than: "well, I do it as well" is utter hypocrisy, and I do hope you can see that.



Ridiculous point, enjoying yourself does not mean you take whatever you're doing seriously... in fact I would say it's the ability to detach yourself from taking something too seriously which makes people enjoy themselves... I don't know where you got this idea... but it's flat out wrong.



I'm not the one who dramatized this "problem", you have to thank Gamb for making a big deal out of this. I do agree with him that it is an issue and it would be nice to go back but my point is that we can never go back, the iceberg I'm referring to is "trolls" in general; they aren't going to disappear even if our user base decides to make a positive change... I'm really not telling users not to try, i'm simply providing the voice of reason: Don't get your hopes up ladies and gentlemen.

you wanted to know why I stay on this ship? because I love this ship: in my heart of hearts I really hope this works but I am a realist and know what the odds of it happening truly are: can you blame me for being such?

Holy crap you guys really rant when you rant. I want my time back.

Neither of you were entirely right or wrong. It is possible to change someone's opinion on something through debate, doesn't happen often but it does happen. The point of debate is not as specific as either of you seem to think it is either. It is simply to figure out who is right. If you're both right that should be reflected in the outcome. If someone is wrong and someone is right that should also be the generally acknowledged conclusion. When incorrect things are shown to look correct is in fact when you've abused the manner in which people perceive things to your advantage to get something out of it. You didn't truly win the debate, you just got the result you wanted a disregarded the importance of the truth.

I thought Shaggy had a good point about the slippery slope of being a jerk and the fact that Fakku isn't going to burn and die suddenly anytime soon (in fact this may be the only good argument I've ever seen him give for anything) though of course it was a bit over-dramatic.

Also Waar (and others) you may not have noticed this but simply the way you've "stated reality" will discourage people from even bothering trying to be better at all as they get the feeling that it isn't even worth trying because they think you guys wont either. I know none of you want everyone to not do anything so even if you feel the need to point out the obvious *ahem* I mean realistic, you should still make it clear that you will yourselves be trying to make things better as opposed to sitting there doing nothing while things get worse.

In my opinion this very topic proves that the situation is far less dramatic then some portrayed it to be (silly conflict settled and a solid/constructive debate taking it's place even though 2 sides with clearly different opinions arose). Maybe we really ought to stop with all that nostalgia and try looking on the current state of Fakku with less pessimism ...

BTW
No one ever asked that we turn into a shapeless mass of pussies deprived of any personal opinion or preference (user preference included) and it's awesome we sometimes differ at those. I also don't condemn people wearing "masks" on the forums. If you truly act how you state you do Shaggy you have my utmost respect but as long building an image (even false) for oneself doesn't harm/unnecessarily insult other people I'm cool with that. It's unavoidable that we try to be 'more than we are' here and I'm no exception. Clown, debater, asshole, etc - all those have their place (hell - perhaps even trolls...), as long we're able to cool off and gain some perspective once in a while.

On a different note - I think that we should stop with the mass de-reping/joining "hate trains" (Waar being the obvious 'victim'/example). We were given the rep tool (along with the freedom of posting) and have the right to use it at will but this getting mindless. It hit me especially hard after seeing a recent '-' I've given (openly admitting doing so and stating the reason) turn into a '-5' very quickly (no further reasons given/topic got closed and yet the number keeps growing). At this point I'm beginning to regret it especially since it was a very rare thing for me to do. If you wanna hit someone 'hard' use arguments/sharp comments/sense of humor to do so or at least state a reason for your actions.

Ram< i don't agree with you at all, even a manufactured victory is still a victory nonetheless. As i said before, debate if often used to determine things about points that have no real right or wrong answer... How can you find a truth if none exist or both hold to be true? This argument in itself has two sides and both have good points/opinions but neither is completely right or wrong, that's why it's our job to argue for the point we believe in and convince those of us who remain on the fence about the subject to agree with our views. You're making it out to be more black and white than it is, being wrong does not always make the outcome negative for you... clearly debates have been won over stupid ideas and bad points in the past. The key to winning a point on something that is incorrect is that you believe that it is in fact correct. When two people debate obviously each person believes in their point, otherwise they would not bother. I've been told i like to repeat my points often but as I read Ramsus's reply I get the feeling you either didn't understand or you are simply of a different mind than me, in which case I wont be able to convince you and this becomes a circular argument, which we should cease.

No need to worry about my rep dais, I can't help but smile when I see that I've affected someone/multiple parties to a point that they de-rep me on a daily basis; I must have really hurt someone's pride. I must admit -15 rep in about 4 days must be some sort of record for someone who has been here this long, do you remember anyone else seeing something like this? (bluesummers/chuu aside)

I'm pretty new abd I don't even understand what this is all about but from what i've read I agree with waar on most of his points, although this site seems far less hostile then some of the others iv'e visited.

btw, what is rep?

Reputation points. https://www.fakku.net/viewtopic.php?t=2091

Edit: You'll see them when you have 14 posts.

You need 14 posts before you can see it.

14 posts for what?