Abortions - Right or Wrong?

Adder, you are saying that a woman should have to carry a child for 9 months because it is a life, which is hilarious and sad at the same time. By this day and age, I had hoped common sense would be standard, but I guess I was incorrect. It should be a woman's choice whether she wants to carry a parasite for 9 months.


:|

Of course you quote me selectively. I do not let my emotions get in the way of a good debate. I have been in various debates throughout my life and see them as good fun, however when one allows it to become personal then there is no point in arguing with that person.
Judging by the fact that you simply disregard me as lacking common sense means that you are not here for dialect or debate. You stated no facts, no convincing arguments, nothing. From this it leads me to assume that you are simply trying to anger me. Pitiful.
Regardless of what terminology you use...Fetus...Fleshy lump.."Parasite"... That was you at one time. Regardless of what whichever culture or society has brainwashed you into thinking there is no denying that it is human. Denying this is just idiocy.
Judging by your post I will assume that you have neither researched the topic, nor have you had to think critically about it. You are just like the rest of today's culture- Mindless television sets that just absorb everything as a receiver, but then fail to question it. That is not necessarily a bad thing, because you fit in with society. That will never be the case with me, however. I have no point to debate this topic with you because "Your eyes are shut, and your ears are closed."

Oh, and by the way- Your Garfest contest is totally wicked. Keep it up, man!

I quoted what I saw as a contradiction in your statement, nothing more.

Untrue, I just felt like saying my take on the matter. I thought your view was incorrect, and decided to say so.

Trying to get me to think of it on a personal level, eh? I don't care if I was once a parasite feeding off of someone else. The culture I live in tells me abortions are wrong daily, so that statement is false. Oh, and because I don't agree with your standpoint I'm an idiot. :|

Haven't researched the topic? Wrong.
Haven't thought about it critically? Also false.
I have to question what is in the air all the way up on that horse, bro, because most of society sees it your way, not mine.

Will do :3

I'm extremely tired at the moment. So if certain things make little to no sense, I apologize in advance.

Fiery Penguin - I understand where you're coming from, but honestly very rarely do you change a persons' mind in a debate. They might not say it as out and in the open as I did, but like neko-chan stated, it just reinforces your own way of thinking [For most people].

Adder - I seriously don't know where you're getting this whole 'you're following what everyone else is' mindset. You know, the whole 'mindless television' one. As TMS said, more and more Americans are pro-life these days.

Spoiler:

“Taxpayer funding of abortions would put the pro-life movement back twenty years,” said Newman. “Americans are becoming more and more pro-life. Demand for abortion has been down and abortion clinics have been closing at an astonishing rate. Laws are just beginning to be enforced, and shoddy abortionists are losing their licenses and facing criminal prosecutions at an increasing pace. The abortion industry is imploding. But with Obama’s plan for a taxpayer bailout, all that could change.” Click for article link

Another article stating that more Americans are pro-life.

Spoiler:

"US opinion on abortion has shifted with, for the first time in nearly 15 years, a narrow 51-percent majority identifying themselves as "pro-life," according to a new Gallup poll published Friday.

The "pro-life," anti-abortion opinion has risen from 44 percent a year ago, while the number of Americans who described themselves as "pro-choice" fell from 50 percent a year ago to 42 percent now."
Click link for article

If america was pro-life, then abortion would be legal in only very rare cases. Considering the fact that around one in every five (some studies say four) pregnancies ends in surgical abortion, and about 48% of abortions are repeat abortions means that more than likely we are keeping it legal just so that people can have a good time and then screw the consequences.

Also- What TMS and you are saying isn't necessarily true. I run into three types of people when it comes to the abortion issue.

First type: Staunchly in favor.
These people are the type who will get in your face, and pretty much tell you off if you disagree with them. They claim to be open-minded and liberal, but in the end they are generally more close-minded than conservatives and just wind up looking:
A. Like someone who doesn't value a human life.
B. Somewhat uninformed
C. Stubborn

Second Type: "Pro-life" [Wishy-washy]
The type of person who "Is against abortion, But....I wont tell anyone else what to do." If a robber was pointing a gun to the head of a victim, you wouldn't tell them what to do either?! People like this generally appear to be:

A. Weak-willed
B. Confused
C. Uncaring

Third Type: Staunch Pro-lifer

The type of conservative crazies that stand outside abortion clinics with signs saying "All abortionists are going to hell." These people generally use religion to argue on a non-religious argument. It IS a moral argument, and a religion can help determine one's morals, however...They should speak in a much larger vocabulary than "The Bible says.." These people generally appear to be:

A. Uneducated
B. Overly condemning
C. Strong-willed

As you can see this is a lose/lose/lose situation. If someone falls into any of these categories I consider their views to be based off of that of the general population, and not individual. Sure, you can be individual and agree with the majority, but generally speaking, great thinkers do not conform.

I try my hardest not to fall into these three extremes. I am not for abortion, and so I am not included in group one. I stand strong against abortion, and so I am not in group number two. Finally, I am not some nut-case who wants to condemn every single abortionist/ person who has had an abortion.. I consider this to be more condemnable than the abortion itself.
Rather- I wish to engage in conversation with pro-choicers, and see if they bring up any valid points whatsoever while still arguing from a moral standpoint. So far, this has only been the case in one argument- When a mother is made deathly sick by her baby. After hearing Rayne's story of his acquaintance whom committed suicide because of a rape, I am mulling the fact that an abortion should be excusable if the mother is suffering SEVERE (not anything less- As I said earlier..Women are very strong.) mental trauma that could result in death. Again, the point is about saving life- not losing it.

Regardless of what statistics say, almost every single person I've ever talked to on the matter (even many pro-lifers) think that abortion should be legal in some cases. I am open to some extent on this point. As I stated earlier- If the baby living would cause the mother to die, then in that case I believe an abortion is excusable.

Also, most of the people america considers to be "Pro-life" are right wing conservatives. Some of these people are the same people that are for the death penalty. That label does not apply to me..In fact, the only point I really agree with conservatives on IS the abortion issue. That, however, is an argument for a different thread. A life is a life- End of story.

Again- The argument you all have been using, the case of rape, is less than ONE PERCENT of all abortions performed in the united states. Even if we could just compromise our views and leave abortions open in case of deadly sickness or rape that would cut out ~95% of abortions.

The thread is not titled "Is abortion in the case of a rape right or wrong". I have met people who think all abortions should remain legal just for the rare case of an abortion from rape. They disagree with more than 90% of abortions, and somehow still support them. Last I checked, in mathematics when we had .9...We didn't round down- We rounded up.

I do not wish to keep reviving this thread every time someone quotes me selectively, or misquotes me.
So, as my last post here I will sum up my opinion one FINAL time. - Wrong.

I hope to get along with you guys on the rest of the site- I also look forward to engaging in debate/dialect on other topics, and and who knows...Someday I could change my mind, or you could change yours... Hope to see you both around. So long!

I didn't only say I was for abortion just because of rape. I'm for abortion because I want the woman to have a choice on what's growing inside her, if she wants it or not. She might not be ready for it, she might be responsible enough for it and if she wants to get rid of it in that way, she should be able to. If she wants to keep it, let her. Like you, I'm also repeating myself over and over again.

I posted my opinion and you said I wasn't posting articles / facts to back it up. I post articles / facts and now that's wrong as well.

It was nice to gain someone else's point of view on this, although you reflect the same views on my family. So, again I know where you're coming from.

I like to believe I have the choice to keep or abort a child I don't wish to have. That's it. The choice to have it, for whatever accepted reason.

Thanks for the nice chat, Adder.

Wrong! I don't care if everyone thinks it's just a piece of meat without a brain, nor feelings, friends or whatever. You have no choice in the matter, you were given a brain, proper education, technology, to avoid the pregnancy, now just because your hormones got carried away and neglected these precautions one might think he/she has the right to justify murder? Not prepared? Then what in the world do you think Sex is for, SPORT? The ends can never justify the means. Go Ahead kill "it" but I'm sure time will come that it will haunt you psychologically and not even a legitimate child (if there ever was such a word) could ever erase that thought that once in your womb there was a kid like the one you are carrying now that could have been someone as adorable as your new child who also just wanted to call you mom.

-_- Wth, digging up this old thread again?



And if I want to have sex for sport I will, abortions have nothing to do with it. I have actually never had sex for the sake of making babies, only for fun and pleasure. How in the world was that statement even a valid argument?

Heh, quite a topic to bring up. Like poring red hot coals on a pile of hey, bound to catch fire. People should, in my oppinion mind there own buisness on abbortion. If something is growing in my body, be it human or not, it is under my jurisdiction, and therefore, my probem. If its murder, fine, ide prefer to kill someone who hasnt seen the light of day or taken a single breath of air, or even become self aware, than ruin my life with the responsibility of child birth.

I think, therefore I exist.

Build an argument off of that.

Start a new toppic and i just may

Abortions are imo the right thing to do. I also think that there should be systems in place to prevent underage pregnancy (under 21 is too young imho). Such as extra tax, instead of benefits (I refer to the UK system if there is no such US equivilant) as well as making abortion compulsory for those underage and not overly pregnant. My views are perhaps harsh but with over 6.7 billion people in the world, I think we will manage somehow. At the end of the day all life has the POTENTIAL to become great not the GURANTEE and they could instead become drains on society as apposed to valued ones. IMO nway

I think it's up to the womens' choice to abort a baby or not. Forcing some women to carry around a baby for 9 months until it's born and then making them adopt the baby is just plain bullshit to me.

Some women get raped. Can people be more fucked up? Just because Christians think it's wrong. That would mentally damage a girl even more who has been raped, now forced to carry around a 8 pound baby in her stomache for 9 months, then giving birth, which is extremely painful and THEN giving up the baby for adoption just to know that the baby who was adopted will probably end up with some crazy fucks who will abuse the child?

Wow.

Abortion will never be solved. It's like the stupid vs the smarts. It's never going to be settled.

I just believe that it's all up to what the circumstances are. If a woman is incapable of raising the child due to financial problems, the child should be aborted. Why? Because if the child were to live a life of poverty and despair, wouldn't it be better to end the life then and there? On the other hand, if a woman was raped or slutting around and concieved a baby, couldn't they avoid abortion, have the baby and give it up to adoption? I'm sure that there all plenty of women or couples that're incapable of giving birth but wish to have a baby.

Edit: Oh.. and this post is not a response to any previous posts to others.

My personal view on the topic:

Basically, all of the excuses made to justify abortion is intolerable. Money problems can be solved or you can give the child for adoption. A child born in a loveless relationship still deserves love because they didn't do anything yet to deserve the anger you saved up from that crap relationship. If your guy is forcing you, leave him, raise the kid, then show him what he's missing.

The only situation when abortion can be justified is when the woman's life is endangered.

If life give you lemons, make a lemonade. If life gives you a baby, don't mash it up in your uterus and say its just blood. It's YOUR child's blood.

No offense but...I fail to see any logic in your arguments...all of it is about emotion. That said, how do you say pro-abortionists can't justify their case? Don't tell me you seriously think "deserving love" is a sound argument against abortion...

Well, all I can say is that most of people's choices are based on 2 things: The situation and their emotions. We study the situation to see which choice feels more right. Sometimes, in the rush of things, we tend to overlook the situation and base our decisions on pure emotion. A teenage girl who fears her parents might rush into abortion, though she does not count the possibility that her parents might accept or may even support her.

Also, I really belong to anti/pro-abortionist groups, as most of them are not really in the situation. What I said is my personal advice to someone I know in case they end up in the situation. Some anti-abortionists even say that even if the woman's life is in danger, abortion is still unacceptable. Pro-abortionists seems to want to make abortion a common procedure you can just easily accept, overlooking the dangers it brings to a woman's health.

I view abortion as an emergency procedure only to be done if every other option is unavailable. But as said, all I'm saying is my personal opinion and the final say is from the woman in the situation.



I don't see it... But Powerthirst made me lol.

Well, to me, I just want to make it easily available so that those who want to do it can do it. To me as long as one is informed of the options available and understands the pros/cons, it's all ok.