Abortions - Right or Wrong?

There is a story about a saint who could see things in the future that god allowed him to see...one day a woman came to him, she was having horrible nightmares and did not understand why...as they sat and talked he closed his eyes and said "i see an image of a pope"...the women asked what did that have to do with her...and he replied " that was an image of what your son would of done if you had not aborted him"

Religious propaganda. It's just a fable about a precognitive clergyman. That child could have also turned out to be a rapist, a murderer, or worse still, a Republican. That 'what if' attitude is the same reason the US and Russia still have 15,000 armed nukes apeice.

Wow, very nice. I don't think I could have put it better if I tried, plus the Republican adage was a nice touch. +1 for you.

This world is already over populated, so in my opinion abortions aren't a problem for me. Who wants another child born into a misfortuned life in the future where everyone struggles to survive because there are so many people. Look at china now, they are so over populated that they set laws to restrict on how many children people can have, pretty smart in my opinion, they should do that in the U.S. so we don't become another china.

I kind of think it depends on the situation. excuses like: If you get knocked up by your lover and don't want your husband to know, or your to young to have a baby at 19 are idiotic.

If your 16, and pregnant. Unless you have some goodwilled rich parents who wants to take care of the baby while she goes to school I strongly recommend abortions. Why? Yes it's a human life but if you end up giving birth to that child in most cases you end up as a young woman who drops out of school and ends up working at McDonalds or something. You won't be able to give your child the right care or the life s/he deserves. So to let one baby live a crappy life you end up ruining two people, three if the father is involved. But most people that want to have an abortion usually only have one parent that's willing to do the job.

Yes, there are examples when extremely poor, extremely young, or drugaddicts have managed to raise a child perfect without that child ending up the same way but in most cases that child won't have a happy childhood. And then I'm not only thinking of bad parenting and the money problems, but I'm thinking about bullies and children are cruel.

Is it right to kill an unborn child? Killing is wrong, the bible says so. But we kill people everyday, criminals do it, we do it in war, and we do it by not helping those that need it, like all those starving people in africa. And knowing someones dying and not helping is just as bad as actually doing the killing yourself. But sometimes, someones better off dead and an unborn child won't feel any pain within the first few weeks that's why most countries have a limit as to when you can do an abortion because they mean after so and so many weeks the child can actually feel the pain.

The only reason I would ever consider abortion would be in case the child had a very grave disease or deficiency or if I had no conditions to raise said child. I prefer to go through hell than put someone I will love, regardless, that is here because of me, through a life where her needs will not be fulfilled.

Never before have I thought a post was worth reading once I stumbled upon those words, or something to that affect, but for once I actually did and can respect it.

I think I'm actually flattered o.o

If you make excellent logical statements, you will get praised.

In my opinion, abortion should be completely legalized. It should be the responsibility of the pregnant women to decide whether or not they have the capability of raising a child. Everyone deserves the right to decide for thier life and having a child is something that completely changes everything in your life. If someone knows they will not be able to support a child, if that person is young (such as a 14 or 15 year old), or if they know they would just abandon the child then they should have the choice to decide whether to have an abortion or give birth.

Let me ask, would you rather someone have an abortion when (in my opinion) life has not really begun, or would you rather that child be born and be abandoned at a young age to fend for themselves? Or perhaps they should grow up with a mother who is irresponsible and leaves them alone a lot while that same mother goes and does drugs, or whores herself out? Given these scenarios I think abortion is a preferable alternative to a child suffering.

The logic of abortion is largely based on the fact a fetus is not considered human. No one's been able to really put a finger on when a fetus becomes human (Self awareness, consciousness, etc...) Personally? Pro-choice for the first 4 months, then you're stuck with them. Give him/her up for adoption if you still don't want a child.

To me there is only one arguement that any pro-choice advocate can use that is even half-way convincing. That arguement being: What if the child is the result of a rape?

It is the child of someone she doesn't even want to remember...Yet it always seemed to me as though that arguement was an assault on the strength of a woman. Women have shown us how strong they are for many years now, and I hope that doesn't stop any time soon :)

I am not saying I want a woman to be stuck with a child she doesn't want. I am just saying that I truly believe she is strong enough to make it to the period where it can (and will) be adopted. There are people waiting YEARS and paying THOUSANDS of dollars to adopt newborn children (Not fully grown ones, obviously, or we would have no need of orphanages...But in reality, there are less babies being adopted than there are people signing up for adoption every year.)

To sum it up: As an intellectual I see NO reason to support abortion. However, I would NEVER condemn a person who has had one. Even worse than the act itself is rubbing salt in the wound of one who has been there. All this in mind, I vote a resounding "wrong"

Even though I am male I find this post to be truly inspiring. Congratulations- You are an awesome person!

But.. that's exactly what you're saying. You want a woman to put up with nine months of having something inside her that she doesn't want in the first place, something that reminds her of a very traumatic experience. That's not wanting to believe a woman has enough strength to go on, that's just being plain sadistic.

Lots of women get paranoid around men because they get raped, but carrying the rapists baby on top of that? That's just wrong, especially if a woman can't handle it.

Women aren't just here to make babies.

It's her body. Let her decide what she wants to do with it. She wants to carry a rape baby for nine months and give to a nice family? Fine. She wants to abort it because she can't handle it? Fine. It's her choice. No woman should be forced to have a baby they don't want to have. Even if it isn't a child from rape, she should still be able to decide whatever she wants to do. She's the one carrying it, she's the one suffering for it, she's the one making the most sacrifices for it. If she doesn't want to, she shouldn't have to.

By the way, not all children get adopted.

If you want to start a debate with me I hope you came well prepared ;)

Let's pick apart this argument, shall we?

"But.. that's exactly what you're saying. You want a woman to put up with nine months of having something inside her that she doesn't want in the first place, something that reminds her of a very traumatic experience. That's not wanting to believe a woman has enough strength to go on, that's just being plain sadistic."

Incorrect. I am saying that a woman is strong enough to put up with the nine months so that another individual may live an entire life-time. You act as though there is only one life involved in the balance. You are merely being closed-minded and trying to distort what I am saying to make you feel good about your point of view. Don't worry, man- All kids make that mistake before they learn to think for themselves.

"Lots of women get paranoid around men because they get raped, but carrying the rapists baby on top of that? That's just wrong, especially if a woman can't handle it."

Lots of people are paranoid about a lot of different things. To classify women as paranoid nut-cases that are too weak and dependent to endure hardship is merely a sexist viewpoint brought about by our culture. Again, you have to grow out of culture before you can think for yourself.
For example- I am terrified of deep-sea fish. Would I spend 9 months carrying one in a bucket everywhere I went, and at the end of that undergo severe pain if it meant saving the life of someone I loved? Yes. Without hesitation. Oh, wait, I forgot. My argument doesn't apply here because I am male. /sarcasm.

"It's her body. Let her decide what she wants to do with it. She wants to carry a rape baby for nine months and give to a nice family? Fine. She wants to abort it because she can't handle it? Fine. It's her choice. No woman should be forced to have a baby they don't want to have. Even if it isn't a child from rape, she should still be able to decide whatever she wants to do. She's the one carrying it, she's the one suffering for it, she's the one making the most sacrifices for it. If she doesn't want to, she shouldn't have to."

And yet, when a pregnant woman is killed it is called a double murder. Seems to me like there is a body you are forgetting about in the mix here. Even if you can argue that it doesn't have life yet, the tiny little bunch of flesh will eventually quite possibly be the body of another very similar young woman.
This is like saying that if you take something reserved for someone else and completely destroy it, even if this has extreme repurcussions to that individual's existence it is ok because you don't want to be inconvenienced with letting someone else live at your expense. Women (and humans in general) are better than that. Not to mention the fact that it is possible that life begins earlier than we could imagine. (Different theories support different views on this, as is to be expected)

"Women aren't just here to make babies."

No shit?


At any rate, I look forward to your response, and as an intellectual I remain open-minded. However so far you have lacked evidence or any sort of moral/ethical ground whatsoever. Come back when you have a stronger argument.

Oh, and for the record- Here are some statistics/facts to chew over.

Less than 1% of abortions are in case of rape or incest.

Studies have shown that prior to 1972 only 39 women died of illegal abortion

The unborn child in a woman's womb is technically not a part of her body. Although it is dependent on the mother it is a separate and distinct entity

One of every five pregnancies in the U.S. ends in abortion.

Annually, 2,000,000 couples apply for adoption- 50,000 infants are available per year.

I wouldn't unless the Female strongly disagree I would like to give birth and give the baby to people who cant have one.

Is a woman strong enough? Yes. Should they have to if they honestly don't want to? No. I'm aware of the other life involved, but it's her choice to bring another life into this world or not.

I'm not trying to make myself feel better about my point of view. It isn't going to change. My opinion is different than yours, I'm aware of your feelings on the issue, and I see where you're coming from. I simply don't agree with them, that doesn't make me 'close-minded' or a 'kid'. Thanks for trying to belittle me though.



I didn't classify them as a paranoid nut-cases, you're putting words in my mouth. I simply said if they're their traumatized by the rape alone, they shouldn't feel the NEED to carry the rapists child. If they could handle it, more power to them. If they can't, they shouldn't need to. A family member of mine killed herself because she got raped + pregnant by her boyfriend and our family doesn't 'approve' of abortions. So yeah, some women can't handle it, those women should be given the choice to abort the child. Not kill the child AND themselves in the process.



Alright. I still make the same argument again, and again. If she wants to have it, fine. If she doesn't want to, she should be given the choice not to have it. I didn't come here to argue with you. I'm not even saying that your views are 'wrong' I'm simply saying she should have a choice. To force someone to carry a child when they don't want one isn't fair.


Honestly, you were giving off that impression to me.




Rape or not - The woman should still have a choice to carry a child in her. It's her body. Lulz at the it's not part of 'her body' (technically) part. It's in her, it needs her to survive.

I simply didn't like that you were saying that a woman is forced to have a child if she's pregnant no matter what. I thought maybe you misworded something, but apparently not. You can't change my opinion and I can't change yours. I probably won't bother replying back. You can call me closed minded how ever many times you want, I honestly believe someone who is forcing a woman to be pregnant is more of a close minded person than someone who believes she should have a choice but maybe that's just me.

I don't need 'statistics/facts' to chew on, I got this straw instead. Thanks for the offer though!

I just wanted to share this little note. If either of you are unwilling to change your opinions then don't bother posting. I would rather see open minded dialogue supported by articles, studies, reports and general facts. Something that bothers me is people who are unwilling to change their stance regardless of any reason. I couldn't care less about your respective positions on the subject. Next time please allow your minds to at least entertain the ideas presented by the opposing arguments.

Edit: I'm not targeting you specifically Rayne. Your comment just gave me the motivation to make the statement towards everybody.

Well that is the problem with debate, it usually never changes anyone's mind. It just reinforces your own way of thinking. Even open minded people have little leeway to what they will except. The only exception is when somebody accidently has their facts wrong, but that isn't a problem here - it is just a change of opinion. They both should still post though.

First off- You have my condolences. I have nothing against you personally.

However, you should not argue on a topic that you are emotionally attached to. If arguing in this topic is going to bring back memories of such things then you shouldn't do so. I am here to debate. As far as I am concerned, though...Your emotion seems to be clouding your intellect on the matter.
If I came across as belittling you, I am truly sorry. That is part of my style of debate- to get the other side to question his reasoning. Remember- you cannot take debate personally. I hold no animosity towards you, and outside of this thread I would make it a point to get along very well with other intellectuals (including yourself)

However, it isn't like I don't have emotional reasons to fight for my side, either. I just keep them in check. I was a very problematic pregnancy for my mother. At one point she was told that either "You would die, the baby would die, or you both will die" In a pro-choice setting I probably would've been aborted.

@ Fiery Penguin-
I am in no way close-minded and unwilling to look at pro-choice concepts/ideas. HOWEVER, I like to debate from the point that I will not tolerate any. When it comes down to it, debating against all abortion generally works out better than appearing wishy-washy. (At least in a debate setting, which is what I am here to do :) )

For example- although I would not put this in my debate, I believe that an abortion should be legal in an emergency case in which the mother would die as a result of the pregnancy- remember, pro-life means saving life...It doesn't mean being so damn stubborn that you lose sight of what is important.