Israeli/Palestinian conflict

I'm very interested in different religions~ and, for six years, I lived in a predominantly Muslim country, so I'm quite familiar with Islam. As for the practice of abrogation-- I'm quite certain that the Quran has never changed since it was first written; even translations of the Quran into other languages are considered "interpretations" (since the original Arabic text is no longer used). So, I cannot claim that I've ever read the original Quran, since I do not read/speak Arabic.

Anyway, I think it's grossly unfair to use a minority within any religion/race/whatever to represent the whole. The members of the KKK consider themselves a Christian organization and base their doctrines upon their own reading of the Bible. Their theology is strongly influenced by Christian Reconstructionism - they hope to "reconstruct" the United States along biblical (primarily Old Testament) lines and to establish a white-dominated theocracy.

Does the existence of the KKK color my opinion of Christianity, so that I see it as an amoral religion? No.

In just the same way, Islamist terrorists don't make me rule out Islam as a religion of peace. A minority never offers a holistic picture.

And you clearly didn't read my NY times reference about -how- the terrorists are twisting religion. ;]

I was using their definition of "Jihad" their "struggle" against the west and against the foundations of Western society (democracy, freedom,etc). In your sense everybody has a Jihad in some shape or form. Though my point still remains that if removing religion would remove that Jihad from the world. Though conflict over land and such wouldn't end it would shift from "My god is right, bow to him" to trying to use resources of that land.



I don't see them as the minority. Even if they were the minority their actions and words show them as the dominate half of Islam where moderates are meek or non-existent. When I think of Islam I think of a man who wants to kill me if I make a bad joke about Islam or would kill me for even saying ANYTHING outside of the highest praise for Mohammad.

In an age of insanity "moderates" are the minority Christian or Muslim. If there is ANY religion I tend to be on easier terms with it's polytheistic religions (pagan,etc) or religions that focus on ones inner self rather than the "sins" of oneself. Seriously, a Buddhist or Tao fanatic is more likely to meditate than ever commit a violent act. I don't even know if I have ever heard of a true Buddhist ever even punching someone in recent years.

As for the "twisting of religion" it's all up to interpretations so how can we say either interpretation is right or wrong? It's like an opinion. There are clear examples from the Koran that specifically call for violence. Same goes for Christianity. There are so many sects and branches of either because of interpretations but, it still comes down to one major flaw. They believe in a god.

sarene: hahaha....a religion of peace that teaches its believers that there are absolute enemies, there's just no peace with them, just hate them eliminate them. very peaceful.
islam says just that about jews and christians. and it's stated in the qur'an, the holy book, no less. from that i see that it is those moderate people that are not practicing the religion to the fullest. they're neglecting what's ordered in the holy book, and talking islamically, those terrorist are practicing the religion the right way.
and all the peaceful verses in qur'an are abrogated by the war verses, so the most up-to-date rules in the qur'an are about war. another raeson not to believe islam is a peaceful religion.

or, are you saying, there are verses that you should neglect in the qur'an? well, from the qur'an itself, hardly islam is a peaceful religion.

Well, those who still do the war verses are mostly from the middle east and the extremist faction. Almost all the people who are pacifist Muslims have considered that those verses are not suited for the modern world and decided not to follow them. And If I start talking about the history of Islam, some people would be pretty mad at me.

and to keep in the topic:
The last attack from Israel to a School in Gaza, killed 42 people

its coz' the hamas is one conventional reason for them to assault Israel

that's why in my opinion Palestina'll just leave the matter be or just shut their fukken eyes off the hamas

it's hard to say who's wrong and who's correct coz' both have their reason to continue this war

palestina for defending their teritory and Israel for claiming their teritory and the reason that palestina attack them

so it's one hard situation there

one more reason. both sides want no less than masjidil aqsa.

This is what they call "generalization", isn't it? Yes, the extremist might kill you if you make a bad joke about Islam. But you're wrong about one thing. Despite of your paranoia about all Islam being extremists, not all of us are extremist.

We, the peace-loving Islams would not justify whatever the extremists are doing. Yes, we might seem non-existent, because the extremists are taking the center stage. All the news about Islam is all about the extremist. I dunno, maybe it's the flawed information system of the world we live in makes sure that the voice of us, the peaceful Islam, won't be in the news. Conspiracy? perhaps. And what can we do to stop the extremists? We want to stop them, but we can't. We try to stop them the peaceful way, But they gunned us down. If we say that the war is wrong(according to our interpretation of what's written in Koran about Jews and Christian which is i believe the rightful interpretation), They say that our interpretation is crooked, that we sides with their "enemies", so we should STFU. We continue speaking against them, They gun us down.

Do you think that we, the peaceful, war-hating Islam agrees with what Hamas did to Israel? No, sir. Do we justify their actions? NO. HELL NO. Nor we agree with whatever Israel did to the Palestines. But sadly, as you mentioned before, the Palestines considers Hamas as their valid representative.

Hell, i would be delighted if someone could disarm those who bombards Israel civilians, be it Hamas or whoever it might be. They should stop making themselves the face of Islam and saying that every action they take is justified by all Islams in the world, only to make us take some of the blame for their mishaps. But i would also be delighted if someone could arrest those who kill the Palestine civilians, for whatever reason they might have. Reasons like "but the extremist hides in the civilian crowds". That couldn't and shouldn't be a justification to kill the civilians.

Just stop all the killings and the bloodshed.

No, the terrorists is doing that based of what they themselves believe to be the orders written in the Koran, according to their "interpretation" of it. They're taking it literally, and they're only reading a small portion of it. They're the ones who don't understand. They lack the understandings, devotion and the correct interpretation needed to truly understand the words written in the Koran.

And they say that the peaceful Muslims is wrong, precisely because those extremists don't understand.

If you read the Koran the right way, and really understands the meaning of the writings in it, You will find out that Islam is a religion of peace.

I'm saying all this as a peace-loving Islam, who is against all the killing that is happened in the Middle East.

And i just wrote things about religion IN A HENTAI FORUM.
I'd say just drop all heated argumentations about religion. This is a sensitive matter for some, And it could get ugly if we don't stop now.

I'm sorry if my post is off-topic, and let's go back to the topic, which is "Israeli-Palestinian conflicts", NOT "Islams".

Peace.

...um. You clearly don't know any Muslims, because that's bullshit. I was born into a Muslim family, and my best friend growing up was Jewish. Even to this day, I go to some Hillel (Jewish organization) meetings. I've known hundreds of Muslims in my life.

Unlike the Judeo-Christian tradition (where you need to attend service at a synagogue or a church), Muslims are not required to go to Mosque. So, I've probably ever been to a Mosque a handful of times and the one lesson that the Imam taught me that sticks in my mind is "God has 2 homes; one in Mecca and one in the heart of every human being. Don't hurt the feelings of others, for that is the equivalent of destroying God's home." So, if I, when I was a Muslim child, was taught not to hurt other people's fucking feelings (by a Muslim religious leader!), how does that even translate into killing people? ;D

But, whatever, as mnx has pointed out, we've clearly strayed from the topic. It makes me really sad when I hear overly broad generalizations that make it sound like all Muslims hate people not of their religion; that they all crave for the blood of babies. When my sister was in 5th grade, one of her closest friends asked her if she ate babies for dinner. Do you know why? It's because -her- father told her that Muslims were intolerant baby eaters (it sounds crazy even typing it). Can you imagine how upset my sister was? She's the most sensitive, thoughtful, and caring person I've ever known.

Mnx is right. This is a forum for hentai, and this topic is getting a bit too close to my skin, so I'm no longer going to talk about religion. It really is an extremely sensitive matter.

+r for mnx, once I can.

sigh i did not want to see this topic. for one i am doing it in my debate at school and belive me it is SHIT ANOYYING people get very personal on this subject wether or not people's rights take place over a lands whole rights as given them.as i said it is annoying to do as both sides have it right and yet worng just look at fakku's own vote.now if you taek it from israel's perspective they are trying o protect there people.However palistine is trying to protect its lands rights.PERSONALLY i think all there really fighting for is just to say HAH i beat you since they have allways ben fighting each other and the gaza strip is a very valuable piece of land both fertile and sea acese to it.But it really boils down to is just simply that they MUST stop fighting and find a way to divide the land equally apart so they will no longer fight over it.

This is why I love ya mnx. I see you as setting the positive trend for all Muslims. Muslims have a serious P.R. problem in the eyes of the world. The reason why people think Peaceful Muslims are non-existent is because we never hear your voices. When we can't hear you be don't think you are there.

I understand this is a sensitive topic for you but, you have to realize that religion is part of the topic in general. Palestinians are lead by Hamas which is basically a fanatical religious group. So religion can't be completely removed from the topic.

On one hand we have a country that is recognized by the majority of the world (the U.N.) as a country. It also embraces the ideas of freedom and democracy while maintaining strong negotiations with it's neighbors who are frankly not too happy about them being there to begin with.

On the other hand we have a "country" that is lead by a recognized terrorist organization in the eyes of the U.N. This group hides weapons and ammo in the homes of civilian and other civilian targets. Teaches children that martyrdom (which I recently found out was created in Iran) is "fun" and that it is their duty.

While the civilian casualties are certainly nothing to simply brush off but, all Hamas members are nothing more than mere civilians. They are not a standing army. Hamas training areas are in parks, school grounds and any other suitably large place within Palestinian territory.

After everything is put together I believe Israel is within it's rights to invade Palestinian territory to destroy the rockets that Hamas has been firing. To an extent I would support a full military invasion (and occupation) or even an annexation of Palestinian land. For the simple fact that Palestinians have embraced suicide bombings and kidnappings amongst a laundry list of other "evil" practices to further their "goals". I do however feel sorry for the Palestinians who promote a peaceful existence with Israel as Hamas and other groups have basically held them hostage within their own country.

Hamas and similar organizations simply can't be negotiated with at this point in time. Their goals are clearly the destruction (and in some cases the invasion) of the west.

Hamas and similar organizations simply can't be negotiated with at this point in time. Their goals are clearly the destruction (and in some cases the invasion) of the west.[/quote]


What?! Bring em on! It'd give me an legal excuse to buy a rocket launcher and automatic guns!!

In an extremely unlikely scenario that all of extremists go and invade usa. I'd be buying a rocket launcher and firing a rocket after rocket into them cuz it'd be fun for me. Yes I am kind of trigger happy.

A plan was laid out by a Muslim Cleric on how to take down Europe and America without ever fighting a single bullet. It's a peaceful form of invasion. Migrate to foreign countries. Have children. Your children have children. Eventually grow from a minority to a majority. Use your political power to bring about change. Vote for candidates that are friendly with your former country.

Currently it is happening in places such a England and France. They use the Freedoms and Democracy in the country to eventually bring it down. Call people racist of bigots for calling out suspicious behavior (similar to the fly imam controversy last year).Recruit "weak" people such as people in prison to become Muslim (the BAD kind of Muslim). It takes a long time but, it's easier to do than fighting the superior military of the U.S. and Europe.

Do to the ineptness of the government to honestly do anything about it. Amongst various other things going on in the country. I honestly won't have children because I don't want them to grow up or live in an Orwellian society or live under Muslim rule in a fashion similar to Iran and similar countries.

That is if they manage to not get whole world pissed off at the terrorists by then. And that one well can happen. And at the people calling us racists and bigots , I can call them racists too for being too superior to be inspected by security. It works both ways. If they don't like it they can answer to my fist and stay the hell out. I'm wondering how long Iran have left before they get smacked around.

Those that won't submit peacefully end up with people blowing up in their schools and markets. The general idea on the big scale is "If they don't roll over. Kill them then roll them over".

Though the plan is actually quite genius. Since unless the government takes away massive amounts of freedom then they basically have free license to do whatever they want. There are already radical clerics in the U.S. and the U.K. already spouting hatred and that these countries should be destroyed in the name of Allah. The U.S. will probably be the last place to go down because of it's fundamentalist sects of Christianity but, that just means that America will end up in a state like Israel. Where mothers fear to send their children to school or the market. Normally, people think you are paranoid but, read enough on the subject and it's not paranoia, it's a depressing realization.

Well, dont they need a license to own an gun, so.. I admit i don't know much about gun laws and such. But i'm confident that countries will adapt and change to dramatic events with casualities of varying levels. There's always pricks.

Just like when russia hit georgia like last year.

i just wish they get it over with already. it seems every few months theres another war going on over there. if Israeli is going to fight a war then do it to the end. dont stop after a few days or a week.