Sexism.
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Tegumi wrote...
theonewhoeats: +1Longevity: You agreed they're both fruit. Fruit in this sense means that they are both actual issues, not just because someone is being oversensitive about nothing. Thank you, have a nice day.
Quit being oversensitive women.
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Classy wrote...
Tegumi wrote...
theonewhoeats: +1Longevity: You agreed they're both fruit. Fruit in this sense means that they are both actual issues, not just because someone is being oversensitive about nothing. Thank you, have a nice day.
Quit being oversensitive women.
Oh, if you were to switch sex for a day, how fast you'd learn...
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Tegumi wrote...
I think his is an issue of intelligence, not sex.True. But perspective only adds to it...
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Mod Note: According to the reports I have received, the nature of discussion in this thread is rather sensitive. As such, I would urge all members to discuss issues in a calm and possibly objective manner, instead of taking things to a personal level.
Thank you for your kind understanding and cooperation.
Thank you for your kind understanding and cooperation.
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I don't really understand your argument, Classy. Sexism doesn't just boil down to misappropriated banter. It takes multiple forms - it drives domestic violence (something which also affects many men) and rape, continues in education with teacher/student praise and involvement, is inherent at high levels in businesses and in sports - which, much like racism, highlight ingrained attitudes from centuries of repression.
The problem is that, in places, it is giving way to reverse discrimination. The extreme feminist agenda would have it that society 'repay the deficit' with preferential treatment. That's a minority view, but isn't a positive way to move forward, and massively hinders the moderate feminist cause. Improvements have been made for both men and women, but there is still a balance to be struck.
The problem is that, in places, it is giving way to reverse discrimination. The extreme feminist agenda would have it that society 'repay the deficit' with preferential treatment. That's a minority view, but isn't a positive way to move forward, and massively hinders the moderate feminist cause. Improvements have been made for both men and women, but there is still a balance to be struck.
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My 2 cents: When I was 8 or so, me and my Mom were driving home from school when a car with tinted windows appeared in front of us and nearly collided with our car. My Mom pulled over to the next lane right in the nick of time, honked her horn as loudly as she could, and screamed something like, "Jesus Christ Mr! Watch where you're goin'!" As we pulled to a stop, I asked my Mom, "What makes you think the person in the other car was a guy?" She said she just kind of yelled without thinking, and that she wasn't actually sure rather or not the person was a guy or not. It seems to me that most people subconciously see men as the 'defualt' gender (the everyMAN), when really, neither gender is objectively superior to the other.
Just some food for thought.
Just some food for thought.
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I would never suggest hitting women or anything like that(the only time i would ever hit a women or told someone it was ok was if and only if your life was in danger)
but if men and women should be equal why is it if a man hits a women he goes to jail and if a women hits a man she gets a slap on the rist, just something to add to the forum.
but if men and women should be equal why is it if a man hits a women he goes to jail and if a women hits a man she gets a slap on the rist, just something to add to the forum.
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I think it's true that men are, on average, stronger than women. This isn't very controversial, because the difference is fairly clear and because strength isn't that important.
I'm just looking at Wikipedia here, but apparently, studies have found that there is a very small difference between the IQ scores of men and women - 3-5 IQ points in favor of men. I don't think that this statement is sexist in itself. For example, if a researcher said "We found that the mean IQ of men exceeds that of women by 3 IQ points," I would not call that researcher sexist. However, in practice, if someone says "Women are less intelligent than men" on an internet forum (for example), I think that is usually sexist, because it seems most likely that the implication is "...and therefore men are superior," which is not really a great conclusion because the difference is so small and because IQ difference isn't a good reason to proclaim superiority anyways. I mean, even if I found a person who had an IQ score 20 points lower than mine, I wouldn't tell them to get back in the kitchen or whatnot.
Also, I'm not sure I understand Classy's argument. He says that sexism is not relevant, but... I can't seem to find what reason he gives for that. He does say that saying men are stronger could be considered sexist, and that this is unreasonable, which seems true. For example, P.E. requirements are different between the sexes, and people don't generally call this sexist. But even though this particular instance is, as he says, "irrelevant," that doesn't mean that sexism as a whole is irrelevant - things like wage differences and so on are still a problem. Generally I'm not really able to follow his logic.
Regarding this thread itself, and specifically the central argument between Tegumi and Classy... I'm not sure if there's a point to it. I mean, in the beginning, Classy stated his point about being STRONG and so on. Even though I don't agree with his conclusion from that, it's a reasonable point. Then Tegumi drew parallels between racism and sexism, which is also reasonable.
But quickly after, the argument turned into this bizarre feud over apples and oranges, which didn't really have anything to do with the original topic. Then, Classy essentially called Tegumi arrogant and later oversensitive, and then Tegumi said Classy was stupid. I don't think that's really helpful or accurate.
I think at worst, based on what I know of Classy (admittedly not too much), he can be accused of trolling. Even then, it's not very reasonable to say "You're a troll, your argument is irrelevant" - his argument's merits don't depend on his motivation, so I think it should either be answered with a rational argument or not at all, not with insults. And I think at some point, you have to ask yourself, "Do I believe that arguing on an internet forum will change this other person's mind? Is this really worth my time?"
It's not like you're obligated by international internet law to keep fighting until the bitter end; you both have the option of saying "Sorry, but I don't think this is going anywhere, let's just leave it at this." and spending your time doing something more enjoyable or productive. Like masturbating! Who doesn't like masturbating? It's what the Internet and Fakku are for.
Anyway... I'm a newbie here, I only have 2 posts or something. Maybe you guys really enjoy arguing and I shouldn't mess with that. Maybe my opinion isn't of value until I've lurked moar or gotten Elite. Maybe this argument will continue regardless and I don't understand how Fakku works. At the most extreme and unlikely possibility, maybe everyone will loathe me or I'll get banhammered (which I will find quite ironic for a certain reason). :/ Nevertheless, that's my view of things.
I'm just looking at Wikipedia here, but apparently, studies have found that there is a very small difference between the IQ scores of men and women - 3-5 IQ points in favor of men. I don't think that this statement is sexist in itself. For example, if a researcher said "We found that the mean IQ of men exceeds that of women by 3 IQ points," I would not call that researcher sexist. However, in practice, if someone says "Women are less intelligent than men" on an internet forum (for example), I think that is usually sexist, because it seems most likely that the implication is "...and therefore men are superior," which is not really a great conclusion because the difference is so small and because IQ difference isn't a good reason to proclaim superiority anyways. I mean, even if I found a person who had an IQ score 20 points lower than mine, I wouldn't tell them to get back in the kitchen or whatnot.
Also, I'm not sure I understand Classy's argument. He says that sexism is not relevant, but... I can't seem to find what reason he gives for that. He does say that saying men are stronger could be considered sexist, and that this is unreasonable, which seems true. For example, P.E. requirements are different between the sexes, and people don't generally call this sexist. But even though this particular instance is, as he says, "irrelevant," that doesn't mean that sexism as a whole is irrelevant - things like wage differences and so on are still a problem. Generally I'm not really able to follow his logic.
Regarding this thread itself, and specifically the central argument between Tegumi and Classy... I'm not sure if there's a point to it. I mean, in the beginning, Classy stated his point about being STRONG and so on. Even though I don't agree with his conclusion from that, it's a reasonable point. Then Tegumi drew parallels between racism and sexism, which is also reasonable.
But quickly after, the argument turned into this bizarre feud over apples and oranges, which didn't really have anything to do with the original topic. Then, Classy essentially called Tegumi arrogant and later oversensitive, and then Tegumi said Classy was stupid. I don't think that's really helpful or accurate.
I think at worst, based on what I know of Classy (admittedly not too much), he can be accused of trolling. Even then, it's not very reasonable to say "You're a troll, your argument is irrelevant" - his argument's merits don't depend on his motivation, so I think it should either be answered with a rational argument or not at all, not with insults. And I think at some point, you have to ask yourself, "Do I believe that arguing on an internet forum will change this other person's mind? Is this really worth my time?"
It's not like you're obligated by international internet law to keep fighting until the bitter end; you both have the option of saying "Sorry, but I don't think this is going anywhere, let's just leave it at this." and spending your time doing something more enjoyable or productive. Like masturbating! Who doesn't like masturbating? It's what the Internet and Fakku are for.
Anyway... I'm a newbie here, I only have 2 posts or something. Maybe you guys really enjoy arguing and I shouldn't mess with that. Maybe my opinion isn't of value until I've lurked moar or gotten Elite. Maybe this argument will continue regardless and I don't understand how Fakku works. At the most extreme and unlikely possibility, maybe everyone will loathe me or I'll get banhammered (which I will find quite ironic for a certain reason). :/ Nevertheless, that's my view of things.
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Here is another story:
My mother said that women are stronger then men?why?Because she said she would love to see a man endure the pain of giving birth.
My mother said that women are stronger then men?why?Because she said she would love to see a man endure the pain of giving birth.
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Just because she'd like to see it happen doesn't mean that men can't endure the pain. Hell, I'd like to see women try to dodge a draft because the government went into another stupid pointless war. Just because we don't have to go through it doesn't mean we are incapable of it.
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Skrymir wrote...
Just because she'd like to see it happen doesn't mean that men can't endure the pain. Hell, I'd like to see women try to dodge a draft because the government went into another stupid pointless war. Just because we don't have to go through it doesn't mean we are incapable of it.Good point you got there.
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I see sexism every day at work. Male or female, nobody ever speaks out against it or moves counter to the position. My parents call it a generational skew and that it was just what they grew up with. I asked them once why they never wanted to change that, and they still can't give me an answer to this day.
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i definately didn't feel like reading anything for fear of being biased in some way, first, i'll tell my opinion, then, I'll read some and write another :) okay i think that the world is full of sexist that take the doctrine of chivary to seriously at times. In recent years it has gotten better; men imprisioned on false rape charges are free, women are being pulled up on spousle abuse charges, and etc. women aren't getting away with the same shit that they used to pull, and they are steadily gaining civil rights. We are coming into a new age, and some women refuse to believe it. I'm amazed by the courage of ignorant women acting ghetto and annoying men 2xs bigger than themself, talkin shit about how they won't get hit, but then it happens and it's pretty funny how shocked they are that they got slapped, men can be just as bad, but in that situation most people have the common sense not to piss off people bigger than them
Read to 3
In my experience women seem to be a lot more mean than males, so i don't like the over generalization that males are the more violent of the 2 sexes. The may [/b]seem to be more violent to me, but that is just my perspective from my life. Women seem quicker to anger, faster to threaten, and loose in their restraint. I can be a dick, and i'm not that impressive, only my rep. makes people think it might be possible for me to be strong, because just looking you couldn't tell, and i've been assaulted by women more than men in my life. I mean someone seriously trying to harm me, luckily i'm fast as hell, and refuse to hit a girl in most if not all cases. There are not a lot of bold people who would try to take me, and girls knowing that they won't get hurt take a swing at me move often. i usually goad people who try to fight me into a frenzy, saying everything that pops into my mind and laughing at their unbrittled rage. People who try to hit people aren't strong, they are weak and have little self control. I'll clarify that i almost get into fights like 3 times a year would be a good estimate. Usually it's 2 girls and a guy. I may be the craziest guy ever but i hang with guys and girls an equal amount of time, overgeneralizing isn't a fun thing, using past experience is just smart. I know that i don't do well with some type of person that seems prevalent amoung females so i tend to be weary with girls that i don't know, because i find women violent and annoying most of the time, this is where i live in my little area, when i'm somewhere new my values change, but in good ole MS, city of xxx i know who to avoid STRONG WOMEN because they have no fear which is stupid
I know some females who don't like to have their meal paid for by anybody
I like that fierce independence but i'm of a different mind, i was at mc donald's and it was all of the females of the group who just said they wouldn't let someone pay for them, basically drowning me in generosity. I like knowing i have the option of being spoiled :) and i dig women who don't want me to pay for them because i'm broke at the moment in need of 200$ so my pockets are sad lolz
When i have it though i make sure to spoil back and if they complain i can say that i'm paying them back for being amazing friends who pay for my laser tag, mcdonalds, and provide rides
If women want sexiesm to end they have to stop bitching about it so rudely because no one likes a rude bitch and the feminist that i've met are bitches who suck at life, and i've never heard of a masculinist?(sounds kinda gay) if women came to me and said they wanted to end sexism i'd be all for it, but the extremist ruin it for everyone and just give the rest of you guys a bad name. No one likes bitches, dicks, or jerks. If ur leader is bad it reflects poorly on your cause.
Paline was not elected because not enough people voted for her sorry ass, if u guys are trying to say it's because she is female u can suck a dick. If Obama wasn't elected then they would say the same thing but it's bullshit. People just think that Paline is incompetent, that's the word, if you want people to think differently than u probably aren't doing shit to change anything, did any of you vote for her, NOOOOOOOO, not because she wasn't a male but because u just didn't want to, that may be inbred sexism but that is a gradual change, can't help it, we are a voting country so if we don't want her than tuff luck
Read to 3
In my experience women seem to be a lot more mean than males, so i don't like the over generalization that males are the more violent of the 2 sexes. The may [/b]seem to be more violent to me, but that is just my perspective from my life. Women seem quicker to anger, faster to threaten, and loose in their restraint. I can be a dick, and i'm not that impressive, only my rep. makes people think it might be possible for me to be strong, because just looking you couldn't tell, and i've been assaulted by women more than men in my life. I mean someone seriously trying to harm me, luckily i'm fast as hell, and refuse to hit a girl in most if not all cases. There are not a lot of bold people who would try to take me, and girls knowing that they won't get hurt take a swing at me move often. i usually goad people who try to fight me into a frenzy, saying everything that pops into my mind and laughing at their unbrittled rage. People who try to hit people aren't strong, they are weak and have little self control. I'll clarify that i almost get into fights like 3 times a year would be a good estimate. Usually it's 2 girls and a guy. I may be the craziest guy ever but i hang with guys and girls an equal amount of time, overgeneralizing isn't a fun thing, using past experience is just smart. I know that i don't do well with some type of person that seems prevalent amoung females so i tend to be weary with girls that i don't know, because i find women violent and annoying most of the time, this is where i live in my little area, when i'm somewhere new my values change, but in good ole MS, city of xxx i know who to avoid STRONG WOMEN because they have no fear which is stupid
I know some females who don't like to have their meal paid for by anybody
I like that fierce independence but i'm of a different mind, i was at mc donald's and it was all of the females of the group who just said they wouldn't let someone pay for them, basically drowning me in generosity. I like knowing i have the option of being spoiled :) and i dig women who don't want me to pay for them because i'm broke at the moment in need of 200$ so my pockets are sad lolz
When i have it though i make sure to spoil back and if they complain i can say that i'm paying them back for being amazing friends who pay for my laser tag, mcdonalds, and provide rides
If women want sexiesm to end they have to stop bitching about it so rudely because no one likes a rude bitch and the feminist that i've met are bitches who suck at life, and i've never heard of a masculinist?(sounds kinda gay) if women came to me and said they wanted to end sexism i'd be all for it, but the extremist ruin it for everyone and just give the rest of you guys a bad name. No one likes bitches, dicks, or jerks. If ur leader is bad it reflects poorly on your cause.
Paline was not elected because not enough people voted for her sorry ass, if u guys are trying to say it's because she is female u can suck a dick. If Obama wasn't elected then they would say the same thing but it's bullshit. People just think that Paline is incompetent, that's the word, if you want people to think differently than u probably aren't doing shit to change anything, did any of you vote for her, NOOOOOOOO, not because she wasn't a male but because u just didn't want to, that may be inbred sexism but that is a gradual change, can't help it, we are a voting country so if we don't want her than tuff luck
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I think much of today's sexism is driven by media content and culture rather than physiological or psychological inclinations to "generalize" about the other gender.
We can all agree males and females are quite different - how much of that difference contributes to the social difference of today's society (Western) I'm not sure, but I think it is fair to say that the demand for absolute equality is hypocrisy at its worst. As a biological species and life form, I don't think we should consider males and females equal. If we cannot equate the two forms in nature, how can we possibly enforce the equation in society?
Most of anti-sexism today lies more so on the "relative equality" area, which focuses on equal treatment for equal input. Sexism in the workplace is obvious, and to say otherwise is neglecting the facts. Women on average get paid much less than men for the same work in every society that had similar studies conducted. The finer "details" of how accurate the statement that "women do the exact same work as men..." is up to individual cases, ... for example,
I know plenty of women who would easily claim themselves as equals at the workplace but would not hesitate to expect the men around them to volunteer themselves to handle physical labor, or in general contribute to the welfare of women in the workplace. ...
However the bigger picture remains that the income gap between the sexes is still greater than any "cloaked" differences between the male and female worker.
As to the social standing and expectations of the sexes, being men as strong, protectors, and providers... and women as homemakers, rearers of offspring and to care for the men and children when they're home, well, it's more about perspective than anything else. Many claim this is the most stable family structure, and would gladly point to many different religious texts implying it was the will of God, but needless to say I doubt this as the most stable family structure simply because there is too great a dependency on the separate sexes for different aspects of what makes a family - (although I guess it contributes a great deal to unhappy couples who're afraid of divorce - men for fear of loss of home and children and women for fear of poverty)
In any case we can identify one of the greatest obstacles between the goals of "anti-sexism" and today's society as religion. Yes, some religious women will claim God empowers women but for every "quote" they pull in support of their view, anyone can probably pull five which contradict exactly that.
Religion is associated as the primary form of tradition-keeping, and most societies were and still are patriarchal. (Pseudo-matriarchal societies often can be spotted with the level of importance placed on a woman's virginity)
...
We can all agree males and females are quite different - how much of that difference contributes to the social difference of today's society (Western) I'm not sure, but I think it is fair to say that the demand for absolute equality is hypocrisy at its worst. As a biological species and life form, I don't think we should consider males and females equal. If we cannot equate the two forms in nature, how can we possibly enforce the equation in society?
Most of anti-sexism today lies more so on the "relative equality" area, which focuses on equal treatment for equal input. Sexism in the workplace is obvious, and to say otherwise is neglecting the facts. Women on average get paid much less than men for the same work in every society that had similar studies conducted. The finer "details" of how accurate the statement that "women do the exact same work as men..." is up to individual cases, ... for example,
I know plenty of women who would easily claim themselves as equals at the workplace but would not hesitate to expect the men around them to volunteer themselves to handle physical labor, or in general contribute to the welfare of women in the workplace. ...
However the bigger picture remains that the income gap between the sexes is still greater than any "cloaked" differences between the male and female worker.
As to the social standing and expectations of the sexes, being men as strong, protectors, and providers... and women as homemakers, rearers of offspring and to care for the men and children when they're home, well, it's more about perspective than anything else. Many claim this is the most stable family structure, and would gladly point to many different religious texts implying it was the will of God, but needless to say I doubt this as the most stable family structure simply because there is too great a dependency on the separate sexes for different aspects of what makes a family - (although I guess it contributes a great deal to unhappy couples who're afraid of divorce - men for fear of loss of home and children and women for fear of poverty)
In any case we can identify one of the greatest obstacles between the goals of "anti-sexism" and today's society as religion. Yes, some religious women will claim God empowers women but for every "quote" they pull in support of their view, anyone can probably pull five which contradict exactly that.
Religion is associated as the primary form of tradition-keeping, and most societies were and still are patriarchal. (Pseudo-matriarchal societies often can be spotted with the level of importance placed on a woman's virginity)
...
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guammastermind671
Da RL Lurker at FAKKU
Dude anyone can do anyone's job seriously if you got a problem with it just keep it to yourself its that simple buddy.
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This issue is a very wide and diverse issue that can't be quantified into a simple answer, but i'll try anyways. Men and Women have always had their differences, but not all of the stereotypes are just meaningless conjecture. "make me a sammich" while a very crude comment is based on a general fact that MOST (I did not in any way, shape, or form say all) women are better at cooking than men. But as with all stereotypes there are people that break the mold. These people are the ones who are different and therefore singled out by people of lower intelligence (sexists).
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gizgal wrote...
Badguy wrote...
Women don't want equal rights, they want special treatment. Come at thee
Yeah... no.
Joke or not, that is quite true in many cases. Most women I know only want the 'equal right's when its suits them, then they go back running and saying 'hey, I'm a woman, you should do that'
And no, I don't support sexism in any way, except perhaps in fiction, if it makes sense in the story.
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Maxiart wrote...
gizgal wrote...
Badguy wrote...
Women don't want equal rights, they want special treatment. Come at thee
Yeah... no.
Joke or not, that is quite true in many cases. Most women I know only want the 'equal right's when its suits them, then they go back running and saying 'hey, I'm a woman, you should do that'
And no, I don't support sexism in any way, except perhaps in fiction, if it makes sense in the story.
If they do that, that's sexist too. There are sexist women out there as well.
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Equality? I sure hope not.
When I'm having a baby I want a lot off work around the birthdate. If I were to go to work 7 days after like men have to, I would be seriously pissed.
Also, I like my man to carry heavy things for me, fix the TV, put together a cabinet and plop his bum down at night so I can cook for him and maybe give him a massage.
I might want a career of my own and if we both have a job it might be better financially. On the other hand, if I do have kids, I'd rather not trust them to strangers and parenting can be a very rewarding job as well. So I might want to stay home.
Strange as it may seem, I feel a lot more comfortable doing typical girl things than doing guy things.
And I'd like my man to do typical guy things as well.
If anything, I feel like being treated equal does not mean being treated the same.
Being a man or a woman.. both have con's and pro's.
When I'm having a baby I want a lot off work around the birthdate. If I were to go to work 7 days after like men have to, I would be seriously pissed.
Also, I like my man to carry heavy things for me, fix the TV, put together a cabinet and plop his bum down at night so I can cook for him and maybe give him a massage.
I might want a career of my own and if we both have a job it might be better financially. On the other hand, if I do have kids, I'd rather not trust them to strangers and parenting can be a very rewarding job as well. So I might want to stay home.
Strange as it may seem, I feel a lot more comfortable doing typical girl things than doing guy things.
And I'd like my man to do typical guy things as well.
If anything, I feel like being treated equal does not mean being treated the same.
Being a man or a woman.. both have con's and pro's.