MG Rising: Revengeance -The Rant and Love Corner-

You should never change who or what you are, only grow.

Disclaimer: Fuck the moneys and gets the bitches

Okay, firstly I'd appreciate it if you read my OP instead of just looking at the picture and reading the title of the thread. At least, that's what I assume you did, since you're coming off very confrontational and arguing about a subject I never complained about: gameplay.

I never said that the action was a bad thing. It's not my type of visuals, sure, but hell I loved the Fist of the North star game and I can dig this type of game. If a Metal Gear game came out with a different cast and had gameplay focusing on a Gear and pure slice 'em up action, I could check it out. My problem is with the horrendous mistreatment of Raiden's character and the theme of Metal Gear.

As I said, the story of the Metal Gear games was always against reveling in violence. To have a Metal Gear game that glorifies it, even in just a trailer, is ridiculous. As for Raiden, he was a tortured soul. At no point in MGS2 or MGS4 was he having fun killing anyone. And that title of "Ripper"? That's what he was called when he was a child soldier. Yeah, it's pretty clear that's not something he'd want to fucking take up again, especially after becoming an alcoholic and going into such a depression he condemned himself to death (in what he says and how he acts, not that he wanted to commit suicide but that he had believed he lost Rose, their unborn child, and his chance at a life free from war).

Don't you see? Even if they make a "story trailer", they blatantly showed you what they've done to Jack and the theme of their game. He was a complex and piteous character who got the happy ending he deserved. He lost limbs trying desperately to free Snake, the only person he thought he could count on, and by the very end he was given beautiful resolution. Why would anybody want to fuck that up for any kind of game, stealth, action or otherwise?

Just look at this revelation in MGS2 with Rose over the codec.
Just look at any of his dialogue from MGS4.
Then tell me the way they've written Raiden here is something we can just shut up about. As much as I don't like the new DmC, at least those writers tried to capture Dante's personality. Platinum Games didn't even give a shit.

From this trailer you know what the theme of the game will be and what Raiden will act like in it, and that is what upsets me so much. Even if it was a spin-off (I posted a link saying they wanted it to be post-MGS4, which is making it a sequel and not a spin-off), then I would still grit my teeth at this nonsense. They've fucked with a great character to turn him into a "Let's have some fun" psycho killer!

Now, I appreciate your reply, and I understand what you mean. People who don't like the game don't need to buy it. We can just look at our MGS4 boxes and snuggle with them.
Which I've done.
Not really but when I type for this long I try to add some levity.
I did snuggle with my MGS2 box when I was younger, though.

I don't believe in the literary code of Word Of God. For me, no matter what, MGS4 is the last game. However, please try to understand that though you don't think I should be enraged if I don't believe in W.O.G, I'm angry that such a good character is being mistreated like this, and that a series with a primary theme is getting a game that undermines that theme entirely.

I have no qualms with anyone who enjoys this game and doesn't feel as I do, but believe me when I say that, personally, this game is awful to me.

...And there better not fucking be an MGS5. Is that official news or speculation? Oh that's just-
Move the fuck on, Kojima! We all know you want to! You still have fanboys and natural fans alike following you! Don't fucking do it! Stealth or action, just let these characters be.

[color=#006FFF]Oh, and yes, MGS5 is legit. (In case you're reading this before watching the video.)

This game, turning out to be an action game instead of a stealth game with ninja action elements isn't a surprise to me anymore right after I saw a cyborg slashing through an army without the slightest bit of care of being subtle. My main concern is that, after seeing Raiden throw a metal gear ray 50 feet up then finishing it with one vertical slash feels awkward because all throughout the series these machines, metal gears as you call them, are supposed to be the badass weapons that can tip the balance of war in a single night. But now they look like popcorn in front of a single ninja cyborg and it just feels wrong somehow. So now it's no longer metal gear vs soldier, but ninja cyborg vs other ninja cyborgs.

LOL , whats next stealth style Bayonetta or kratos? on second thought i may try tenchu style bayonetta hahah.

When I first saw the debut trailer for MGS: Rising I thought to myself: NINJA STEALTH? NO GUNS ONLY A BADASS ELECTRIC KATANA!? TAKE MA MONEY KONAMI!

Then I saw the trailer for MGRR: Ok the music is pretty badass... but where's the stealth? Am I looking at Dante in Raiden's skin or something? What's Vamp doing in this trailer? WHERE IS THE NINJA STEALTH I WAS PROMISED!?

As an action game fan I'll be looking into this alright, but it seems that I must turn to Splinter Cell for stealth :(

Oh! I was literally just about to post that! Thanks, mate! I'm going to watch it once it's done loading for me.

As for the MGS5 topic:
1. Thank you for clarifying that for me. I appreciate it.
2. He's really going to make an MGS5... [string of vulgarities here]



Which somewhat ties into what I was talking about this game presenting a theme that tramples on the primary theme of the past Metal Gear games. Kind of like a Gundam game depicting a guy in a small armored suit punching a Gundam in the face and having it explode. It's...not right.

Though the "reveling in bloodshed" thing is far worse than that. Good point, though, mate.

Okay, so I watched it. All of it. I get why he went to Platinum Games and how things were good with the story but screwed up with everything else. They couldn't balance stealth and action, though I wonder if they still could have done it by themselves if they, like Platinum Games, focused primarily on the action.

I think the line from Cutscene Director at Kojima Productions really puts it all into perspective:
"As long as it looks cool, anything goes."
Oh that bodes well for what the acting will be like for this thing...

Then you've got Kojima saying he dug what Platinum Games was doing and rebuilt it from the ground up because he wanted to bring in more of the team's ideas.
Then you've got the writer who was working on it from the start:
"Before, the story was set between MGS2 and MGS4. Now that we are working with Platinum Games, we sat down and discussed what they wanted to achieve. After much thought, we decided to set the story after MGS4 so they could be able to make the game they wanted.
...It was a huge decision. I had to sit down and start from the beginning with a clean slate."

Just speculating here, but you can even see it in his face that he was strong-armed into doing what Platinum Games wanted at Kojima's likely stern behest. Platinum Games's head honcho is determined to have everyone see the "notable change" with his involvement, and for his people to "leave their mark" on the series. Kojima flat out says, in regards to the aforementioned writer:
"He is writing it taking into account the director at Platinum Games. [The story] is being done at Kojima Productions, but it is very different from what we have done in the past."

So, again, just my speculation and what I've gathered from watching this, but it seems that Kojima was desperate to utilize what his solo team had made instead of letting all that work go to nothing, and he went to Platinum Games for help since, admittedly, Platinum Games knows action. Once that team was involved, the director started wanting different changes to the story which would reflect the changes in the visuals and gameplay. Between the writer's words and the director's eagerness to make sure it's known as a Platinum Games developed game, it all sounds like it was a forceful process. Either Kojima was forced to make changes to Raiden's character because the director he was working with was demanding it, or he genuinely liked the brutalization of Raiden's character since it goes along with the gameplay. Either way, though the story is being written at Kojima Productions, Platinum Games is heavily influencing it.

This idea of "oh, but starting with a story set between a marked beginning and marked end was too constricting" is obvious bull. Firstly, the time gap between the two is enormous, at least in terms of Raiden's character change. Secondly, there's been plenty of great stories told that were set between pre-established beginnings and endings. Besides, no matter what there's still going to be a pre-established beginning since it's not their original character, so that further shows the bull at play. No, going off of what is explained and how it's explained, I can believe that the director just wanted more control over the game's story since he was already being given a lot of control over the gameplay. This influence is what led to the abomination that's gotten me red in the face.
...From anger.

We also got to know Kojima a little more. He's a very intelligent and good project director, but from the commentary in MGS4 we are told he likes to do a lot of things hands-on. It's obvious that once people have gotten used to this type of style of work they won't function naturally with a director who sticks to directing and not jumping in to do things on his own. I don't blame the previous director for the failed project on this one, unlike Kojima (going by what the previous director said in his meeting with Kojima).
We also see that Kojima, despite that long monologue from Boss at the end of MGS4 and what he'd said a few times, was planning to continue the series anyway, so I guess the persistent fans and fanboys aren't to blame either.

At the end of the day, the only two to blame for this is the director at Platinum Games and Kojima himself.

There is also Konami, who insist on releasing new Metal Gear games, even though it's probably not the best idea. I don't really buy that Kojima really wants to continue, after having made undoubtedly clear that he wants to end the series multiple times. It's more likely that he is completely aware that he can't get out and has given up on trying. Seriously, look at this mess that is Peace Walker with it's Monster Hunter stuff. He doesn't even give a fuck anymore.

Maybe you're right, but there's still plenty of other stories he could work with as well, especially a little crowd pleaser known as Zone of the Enders. He's the head of his own production company. If he wanted to make another game, I'm sure he could manage it. The guy is practically a household name, after all.

On one hand we have all he's said and that long ass monologue from Big Boss at the end of 4 to show us he wanted to move on, but on the other hand we have him telling us about how he started making ideas for more MGS material shortly after MGS4's release.

It's all conjecture in the end, but to be honest I think the reality is likely a bit of both. Either Konami or the international fanbase of the MGS series (or both) got to Kojima and after making his magnum opus in MGS4 he just didn't care as much as before, if at all.
No, rather he clearly doesn't care at all, since even if this is an action game, there's no excuse for allowing someone to ruin his character and story theme like Platinum Games has with Revengeance.

"As long as it looks cool, anything goes."
...Sigh...

I've gone from angry to depressed. Not really depressed, but more...dejected.

i dont get what you guys are complaining about either story or gameplay.

for the story i get why they would want it after mgs4. for having not to stay in the boundaries and limits of the time frame from 2 to 4 just because it wasnt developed in the world

for gameplay it looks pretty solid. also you're a super cyborg ninja with a sword that cuts through anything so why bother with stealth.

"As long as it looks cool, anything goes."
I've lost hope for this... I was really looking forward to Rising, but now...

...Rising...
At first it looked fun i guess. Then cutting up a man to like 8 pieces?! 0_0
In MGS games I try not to kill, its better that way. I'll give the game a shot though.

This is the first Metal Gear game I'm even remotely interested in. It looks cheesy, and camp is hell. Metal Gear has ALWAYS been cheesy and camp. To be honest, even an ounce of self-awareness of this fact will do the series good, and so enter Platinum - makers of Bayonetta - having the game be called "Revengeance," a cross between "revenge" and "vengeance"...

...if Metal Gear wants to go the Evil Dead path, I wholly support it. This is exactly the kind of over-the-top, ludicrously inward-looking self-parody it's always deserved. Frankly, kudos to Platinum.

I hope this is the main MG Rising Revengence thread.
A new trailer of it shown at TGS.

So the demo was pretty cool. The violence is way over the top and they really overdid the whole "I'm a cold badass who slices up dudes" theme but it was still kind of fun. I'm horrible at it though. I wish there was like a dodge roll or something.

sounds like someone missing the point that this wasn't even canon at all tbh.
It's just a alt game detailing one of the possibilities of how he became the CN in 4

Remember that whole mind screw in 2?

Not to mention, the obvious lack of the word "Solid" in the title. This is what seems to piss me off most, when people say it's not a Metal Gear Solid game.

News flash, Einstein: it's NOT a Metal Gear Solid. It's a Metal Gear RISING game. So stop whining and expecting something that is MGS. If you don't like how this is turning out even now, go follow Ground Zeroes instead.

[size=10]Geez, you'd think after Metal Gear Ac!d, people would get the hint and not expect a real MGS game that doesn't have Solid in the title...[/h]

Anyway, I bought ZoE HD recently, and I'll be testing out the demo for myself later this December.

Exactly.

Solid, Rising, and Ac!d are subseries in the metal gear universe. They don't connect with each other at all. If that was the case, the game would be called Metal Gear Solid Rising, [which would mean that it is part of the solid canon] but it is not.

Fun fact: this game WAS Metal Gear Solid: Rising, up until Platinum Games was brought in.