The True God

OMG dude you cannot get anything through your thick skull.

The I scratch my back and you scratch mine routine is morality. It is what our laws are based on. Our laws were never based on religion at all.

Our laws did not come about because of religion they came about of thinking of consequences. Those consequences were not supernatural they happened to people everyday so they had experience.

And yes if you are nit picking for moral values from a book and claiming we get our morals from religion then that defeats the purpose. If you do not agree with some of the morals from that book then you must not get all your morals from it. You must have those morals already and just filling in the ones you agree with in the book.

In a first world country there are laws against slavery it doesn't matter if it happens somewhere else. There are laws against it. And the bible advocated for slavery and even condoned beating slaves. Religion also taught that men were better than women because it was a female (Eve) who originally took from the tree of knowledge and convinced Adam to eat from it.

There are many stories in the bible which are horrible. God asking people to kill every single woman and child in a town. He sent bears to rip apart youths just because they made fun of a bald man.

The FACT is that murder, rape and many more crimes happen even with religion and is not stopped or lessened in anyway. America is one of the most religious countries in the world and just look at how horribly it's doing.

And yes people would kill if there were no consequences at all. Heck I would kill every person who made me mad if there was no consequence. But there are consequences. I have a conscious. I feel bad when I harm others.

Even if I didn't have a conscious and was a psycho path killer there would be consequences. People will try to stop me from killing because they have empathy for others. There are always consequences even if there was no law.

Lets say one day the world suddenly had no laws. All of civilization collapsed and ways of global communication were gone. Lets say we went back to 10,000 years ago.

You know what would happen?

People would start to form tribes. Each tribe would set up their own rules for survival. As those tribes found places to settle they would create new rules in order to keep the settlement stable. As time goes by they have new people join their tribe and the settlement grows forcing them to create new rules in order to keep the settlement stable. They discover that other settlements are being created nearby. They find out those people have materials they want. They judge whether or not if they should just take the materials and kill the people opposing them. They find out that it is better to cooperate and trade back in forth with the other settlement. They create new rules on trade to keep it from falling apart.

You see where I am going here? If there was suddenly no laws people would soon create them again. We do so because of past experience. Laws don't suddenly just poof out of nowhere. It takes a certain event to happen which causes those who have experienced that event to make a decision on whether they want to avoid it or not.

They are creating rules based on weighing the consequences. These consequences are not supernatural in any way, they come from experience of what has already happened.

Religious ideas has been around for at least 40,000 years because Cro-Magnons display certain things like burials and offerings. But there is no evidence to show about laws being created from religion. Only minor things that show spiritual beliefs.

Religion was not used as a way to control people in societies until a while after they settled. It was a way for other to manipulate people. It was not because these people needed to be manipulated but because people in power wanted them to be manipulated.

The origin of our morals comes from weighing out the consequences and those consequences are almost all natural.

The point I am making is that religion has not been shown to stop people from killing it actually has shown to do the opposite. Religion causes bigotry and separation. It causes people to hate others for no reason other than because god told them so. If people want to kill they will do it regardless of what their religion or the law tells them. Some people will actually use religion as an excuse to kill others.

You talk about the law but those laws were not created from religion. They were created despite religion and religion hijacked it.


And yes all surveys that are using opinions and calling them fact are null.

You also did not address my part about education being the way for a healthy and safe community.

I would like to see your proof that atheists kill themselves more because so far you have not proven it.


Religion is not needed. There are other things that can take the place of religion. Give me and example of something religion can do that nothing else can.

You have not debunked anything so far all you have done was show your own ignorance.

You think that you are superior to other humans? You think that other humans cannot show the same morals as you without religion? pfftt!

I have more confidence in humans than you and I think they are all capable to act as moral as I am.

Ironytaken wrote...

OMG dude you cannot get anything through your thick skull.

Same could be said for you my stubborn friend.

The I scratch my back and you scratch mine routine is morality. It is what our laws are based on. Our laws were never based on religion at all.

Yes they are. Go back to when the constitution was first written, all the people who wrote it? God fearing sons o bitches...each and everyo one of them used religion, and other similar documents to make their own.

Our laws did not come about because of religion they came about of thinking of consequences. Those consequences were not supernatural they happened to people everyday so they had experience.

Again, the guys who made our laws? Religious peoples that used the bible as a reference for what's good and what is bad.

And yes if you are nit picking for moral values from a book and claiming we get our morals from religion then that defeats the purpose. If you do not agree with some of the morals from that book then you must not get all your morals from it. You must have those morals already and just filling in the ones you agree with in the book.

Lol, I like hoe you use 'the book'. It's like you're basing my entire argument off of just the Bible...it's funny really.

In a first world country there are laws against slavery it doesn't matter if it happens somewhere else. There are laws against it. And the bible advocated for slavery and even condoned beating slaves. Religion also taught that men were better than women because it was a female (Eve) who originally took from the tree of knowledge and convinced Adam to eat from it.

There are many stories in the bible which are horrible. God asking people to kill every single woman and child in a town. He sent bears to rip apart youths just because they made fun of a bald man.

Again, I LOVE how you think I'm referring to only the Bible when I say religion, like it's the only religious book and set of documents out there.

The FACT is that murder, rape and many more crimes happen even with religion and is not stopped or lessened in anyway.

Ah ah ah, you can't say that. You have no proof that says that without religion, things would be exactly the same.

America is one of the most religious countries in the world and just look at how horribly it's doing.

Lol no it's not. If anything we hold the most atheists out of any other countries. And how do you mean horribly? We're a fucking AWESOME country by comparison to damn near the entire world.

And yes people would kill if there were no consequences at all. Heck I would kill every person who made me mad if there was no consequence. But there are consequences. I have a conscious. I feel bad when I harm others.

Yeah? Well who's to say there aren't plenty of people in the beginning of civilization who thought without using that common sense conscious you got because society told you that killing is wrong and taught you why? You can thank religion for that btw.

Even if I didn't have a conscious and was a psycho path killer there would be consequences. People will try to stop me from killing because they have empathy for others. There are always consequences even if there was no law.

People will try to stop you because they know you might kill them as well. When everyone is a possible victim, the act becomes much more despicable by society. Again, a selfish thing of humans.

Lets say one day the world suddenly had no laws. All of civilization collapsed and ways of global communication were gone. Lets say we went back to 10,000 years ago.

You know what would happen?

Well considering all our lives are based off our technology? If studies have anything to say about things, we'd probably die, for the most part, if that happened.

People would start to form tribes. Each tribe would set up their own rules for survival. As those tribes found places to settle they would create new rules in order to keep the settlement stable. As time goes by they have new people join their tribe and the settlement grows forcing them to create new rules in order to keep the settlement stable. They discover that other settlements are being created nearby. They find out those people have materials they want. They judge whether or not if they should just take the materials and kill the people opposing them. They find out that it is better to cooperate and trade back in forth with the other settlement. They create new rules on trade to keep it from falling apart.

And yay for the religious guy that organized it all. Or perhaps the atheist that stood up and said, "Look! I have a religion that tells you all to do as I say and you'll all be fine!" What? You think religion would disappear if communication died out? Without religion to provide hope and a better understanding on why things are bad, we'd all kill eachother just for food of things just all of a sudden went back to 10,000 years ago.

You see where I am going here? If there was suddenly no laws people would soon create them again. We do so because of past experience.

Past experience being the laws you used to know? The ones that were created based off of *gasp* religious values? Yes I agree.

Laws don't suddenly just poof out of nowhere. It takes a certain event to happen which causes those who have experienced that event to make a decision on whether they want to avoid it or not.

Yup, laws sure don't poof out of nowhere, it takes a lot of people telling a lot of other people, "Look, this is a bad thing to do, and we all agree on it because of such and such reason. Oh yeah ,that such and such reasoning? Usually religious.

They are creating rules based on weighing the consequences. These consequences are not supernatural in any way, they come from experience of what has already happened.

Dude you don't think IM religious do you? I'm an agnostic...a Theist Agnostic. I don't believe laws were created by god either, I DO however think it took some people who believed in a god of some sort and had a religion based morality system that attracted more poepl to the idea of, "Be a nice person, and nice things will happen to you, because our God said so."

Religious ideas has been around for at least 40,000 years because Cro-Magnons display certain things like burials and offerings. But there is no evidence to show about laws being created from religion. Only minor things that show spiritual beliefs.

See above link displaying that religions and morals are directly connected and intertwined.

Religion was not used as a way to control people in societies until a while after they settled. It was a way for other to manipulate people. It was not because these people needed to be manipulated but because people in power wanted them to be manipulated.

Lol, the whole conspiracy thing. OR, here's a crazy thought, religion EVOLVED much like we did! We, as people saw that certain things beyond our control did good and bad things. The Sun is a prime eample...no religion much older than Sun Worship. Sun Worship became the God that provides the Sun, which became there are many gods that provide everythign around us worship, which became there's one god that provides everything worship. It wasn't just created to make a bunch of people blindly follow orders, it was and still is a form of giving hope to society about an afterlife, and the ideas that you should do good things to others.

The origin of our morals comes from weighing out the consequences and those consequences are almost all natural.

Except for the ones where people go to hell, or are punished in the next life by being changed into a cockroach or something. Those are highly motivating I find.

The point I am making is that religion has not been shown to stop people from killing it actually has shown to do the opposite. Religion causes bigotry and separation. It causes people to hate others for no reason other than because god told them so. If people want to kill they will do it regardless of what their religion or the law tells them. Some people will actually use religion an excuse to kill others.

Use it as an excuse, not actually use it.

You talk about the law but those laws were not created from religion. They were created despite religion and religion hijacked it.

As explained twice before, laws were created by people who had religion. So no.

And yes all surveys that are using opinions and calling them fact are null.

Than all that you say is null because it's opinion.

You also did not address my part about education being the way for a healthy and safe community.

Because you edited your post as I was posting. I'm not saying education is bad...I don't see how that has to do with our discussion though. I stated religion is good for morality, and you stated it's not...what's education have to do with it?

I would like to see your proof that atheists kill themselves more because so far you have not proven it.

See my edit.

Religion is not needed. There are other things that can take the place of religion. Give me and example of something religion can do that nothing else can.

Lol, you are taking this argument WAY too far in your own mind. I never said you NEED religion to have morals...ever. Stop saying I did.

You have not debunked anything so far all you have done was show your own ignorance.

Every example you've used I explained why it is bullshit. That is debunking, so stop being ignorant towards it by calling ME ignorant. See all those examples of, "Well if religion did this, then why this?" See those things I wrote under those examples? That's me showing you you're wrong by using facts.

You think that you are superior to other humans? You think that other humans cannot show the same morals as you without religion? pfftt!

Yay for putting words in people's mouths! How about You not just assume what I'm saying? That'd make you sound more credible.

You can have morals without religion. But religion has a big ol strong ass root IN your morals whether you acknowledge it or not.

I have more confidence in humans than you and I think they are all capable to act as moral as I am.

Lol now I feel humans suck in some way, you're horrible at this.

Seriously, my original point was Religion is not a bad thing, and now it's turned into me hating human beings who aren't religious, wtf.

OK you have just proven yourself to be uneducated and to not even look things up.

I have given up arguing with you because it has become apparent that you really do know little about history and other important things I addressed in my previous posts. I see that you have little care to look up what you post before you type it out.

I mean seriously.......the founding fathers who wrote the constitution were mainly deists. They envisioned a society with religion separate from state. Most of the founding fathers found current religious beliefs appalling.


My evidence is below.....

I am done arguing with someone who doesn't even care if what he says is really correct because you never seem to look up the things you say. I am tired of correcting you and this is the only thing I will correct because it is obviously wrong. And this info can be found with a simple search of google.

I never cared to convince you, this was more for the people sitting on the sidelines. I will let them decide what they feel is correct.

Thomas Jefferson

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

John Adams

"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes." --- John Adams, letter to John Taylor

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" --- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson

James Madison

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." --- James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." --- James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785


Benjamin Franklin

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."--- Benjamin Franklin, Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both there (England) and in New England."--- Benjamin Franklin



George Washington

George Washington appears to have never wrote about anything Christian. He seemed without a trace of Christianism. He was so completely indifferent to its pious irascibilities that he never appears to have made any comment on them. Indeed, he seemed, according to the evidence, to have had no instinct or feeling for religion.

Who's a big boy that can dig up quotes?

Go back to my original point that despite what you want to acknowledge or schoose ot ignore, your morals have been majorly affected thanks to Religion. Criticize it all you want, ya still gotta thank it for providing what it has to your belief system.

Also, WHY is it your only religion being used in your argument is Christianity when I refer to ALL religion.

And another thing, you didn't apologize for saying I have no faith in non religious humans.

And another thing,Do you even REMEMBER what my original point was about? You know, religion being a good thing?

And also...I'd like to point out that while those quotes CRITICIZE Christianity...all these people still had religion...so I fail to see your point. Unless our founding fathers were Atheists, this really says nothing.

And also, I methodically break down almost all of your arguments, and you cop out and say, "I'm done arguing with someone who does no research." Even AFTER I posted one of my major sources.

And also...your bias against religion doesn't show at all /sarcasm.

It says a lot because the founding fathers did not believe in using religion as law. They wanted to create a constitution that separated religion from law. They held no attachment to any religion and were merely regarded as deists.

Which is why you do not see the ten commandments in front of the white house or court or any building of law.

Most of the founding fathers wanted religion separate from law.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802




If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? ...Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814


You have proven nothing and since I see that you care not to check your info that it is useless arguing with you. You will never change your view because you don't even care to even look if your info is correct.

If you don't know something as simple as the views of the founding father's and still make a blatant statement being so confident that you do then debating with you is a waste of time.


End of debate. Let the other members decide.

Right. Deitists...so...they believed in God...but they weren't religious? Mindfuck ftw. So yeah, let's go ahead and say they chose to NOT incorporate "Stone the sinners" into our Constitution, I'll believe that...but they came up with basic laws like don't kill and don't steal and shit from religious morals...they then EXPANDED on those things and said people have a shitload of other natural rights that cannot be infringed. Yay for our founding fathers, but it's unavoidable that their religious beliefs play a part in their morals, which played a part in making laws.



No, we don't see them there because people get pissed off whenever yhey are and say, "Take that shit down right nao!" Do you not FOLLOW the Ten Commandments? Do you think people sould break them? Thou Shalt Not Kill's pretty high up there in the big ten. They're a pretty nice guideline ain't they?



Seperation of Church and state, yes, I know, you're repeating yourself.



Oh but I have...again, see the link that I posted earlier. I'm not gonna change my view that religion is good because...religion is good...seriously how can you prove that it is bad? I'm willing to say it's done bad things, but it's good to have in life.



Oh I know many views of the founding fathers. Let's see, drugs aren't bad...slavery's ok...b;ack people aren't real humans...and who needs teeth?

Real smart batch they were.

Why do you think they made the constitution amendable? They knew for a fact they weren't that smart.




Yes members, please do decide, since THIS is the end of the debate. Am I right and Religion is a good thing, or is he right in that religion is bad and unnecesary...and that surveys are now all of a sudden inefficient research devices?

Personally I agree with Sarah Silverman that we should sell the Vatican to feed the hungry. Although I don't see Religion as necessarily a bad thing, I just think the cosmos its self holds much more elaborate truths and wonders for us to discover, rather then accept that a creator did everything and be satisfied with that.

I was raised by "Christian" parents, however the topic of religion never came up untill later in my life when the whole science vs religion thing started a few years back. I've never been to a church sermon nor plan to, although sometimes I do feel a void spiritually, and wish I knew how to fill it.

Yah I think All those people who got rich off religion should be forced to give their earnings away to some charity and get a real job.

The Vatican is a vile place where the pope spews misinformation to the uneducated masses to cause more misfortune. And it is a known fact that they hide priests who are child molesters.

Also doesn't the pope look like EMPEROR PALPATINE

Yah I think All those people who got rich off religion should be forced to give their earnings away to some charity and get a real job.

The Vatican is a vile place where the pope spews misinformation to the uneducated masses to cause more misfortune. And it is a known fact that they hide priests who are child molesters.
{/quote]

I never liked the Vatican myself...but then again my parents aren't Catholic, they're Methodists...so I don't really care about what they do all that much. However to say that preists don't have real jobs is friggen rediculous. The amount of commitment they have to what they do is crazy. Just taking a vow of chastity alone is incredible(Yeah I know, "What about the molestors?" You think EVERY preist is a molestor? I don't.) Then there's reading the bible friggen a thousand times just to be bale to quote it whenever necessary to some people who come into confession and say some crazy ass stuff they did that preists have to provide psychological and spiritual comfort for.

These preists aren't making millions of dolloars being preists, they make your average salary that allows the mto support themselves...I don't see anything wrong with what they do.

It's getting sour here, well, since Jews which are the first people of God didn't accredit Jesus. Yet many turned Christians, as greater warriors converted and forced defeated countries to be Christians or die.

So far in science, the start of things are plants & bacterias & planets, maybe nature is God. This is just an opinion of mine.

I am an atheist.
Look here Im a very peacefull person that realy care about others.
I see no god reason for me at all to kill another human...
I would be sad about it because like all other humans I have emphaty wich means that I am able to understand other peoples feelings moore or less. I dont want another person to feel bad.

some of you have not meet many atheists I guess. most of my friends are atheists, and there is quite a lot of them here in sweden, maybe even more atheists than belivers. yet my friends dont want to kill people, no they believe in peace just like I do(at least as far as I know).

I am talking about the people who are higher up in the Vatican.And not just those people but every other person who uses religion to fill their pocket full of money. And no I do not think all priests are child molesters but the Vatican does hide the ones who are. They transport them from place to place but do not hand them over to the law.

I despise people who make a buck off of others by taking advantage of their superstitious beliefs. Also the Pope has been spreading misinformation about aids and sex. He is misinforming the people in Africa telling them not to use condoms because they can get aids from them. Not having contraceptives is causing a lot of problems over there and the church is advocating to increase those problems. There are a lot of other things I could name too.

Also it doesn't matter how much commitment priests have if what they are doing is causing problems. A lot of the priests are smart enough to know what is poppycock in the bible and yet they lie to the people and spew out more misinformation.

If I didn't have a conscious I would have no problem taking a job as a priest or anyone who works in religious affairs. It is a dam easy job to spew misinformation to the uneducated masses. I just have to much of a conscious to willingly do that.

Like I said education is key to having a healthy community and bringing as much peace as there can be. Yet religious people in power would rather keep the masses uneducated. Yes people in power religious or not have wanted to control the masses and leave them uneducated but people practically worship the pope and others like him. It is all too easy for them to take the pope's word.

Only a few years ago the Vatican finally admitted that Evolution was true and only because of the blatant facts that have been shoved in their face.

If you want to know how morality has changed and civilization progressed then all you have to do is look at how education has been spread through the masses. Education is what will progress civilization further and I frown upon Religion halting it back. The people in power Like the Pope and other leaders in the Vatican can easily set things right, but they decide not to and try to halt their followers from obtaining knowledge.

No, because the SMART asshole humans know how to control the chaotic dumbass evil humans, which is the majority.

That is pretty high and mighty of you. Its nice to know that even you can look down on others.



Already said this is a bullshit argument...asking someone who already has if they would. You kidding me? Besides, they joined the military, and killed, doesn't that ALREADY Answer the question?

You do not know much about the military do you? The majority of jobs in the military do not involve combat. The Army is easily the branch with the most fighters, yet they need people to repair helicopters and jeeps. The Air force and Navy use far more technicians and otherwise computer savvy people. And believe it or not most people in the Air Force are not pilots! It is safe to say that 98% of the people do not join the military to kill, they join because of the benefits that come with serving your country ( free schooling, the best references around for job applications, great pay ). And for the 2% that are the people who join to kill, we call them Marines. Seriously, that group is the last one you EVER want to pick a fight with.


edit: the red text is BigLundi and the text in quotes is Irony Taken... I think. I know I am right about the red text though.

I'm not talking about me personally, holy hell people like to pu words in my mouth.



Already said this is a bullshit argument...asking someone who already has if they would. You kidding me? Besides, they joined the military, and killed, doesn't that ALREADY Answer the question?



We were referring to people who have killed. So yes, we were only talking about the branches that do the fighting. We weren't talking about the mechanics, radar readers, desk jockeys, and all that. Pay attention. Besides, regardless of wanting to join to kill or not, you join the army knowing full well you might be told to kill someone. In this case, you join, figuring the benefits outweighed your conscious against killing.

Ever see Good Will Hunting? Famous scene is when Will gets offered a job at this big ass government company, and he was SO against being somehow connected towards the killing of another human being, or even hurting them, that he denied the job, followed by a gigantic reason why, "Say I do my job well and figure out a code that nobody else could figure out...I go home, I'm proud of myself...but then again, I might have just given the coordinates to a small African village that's supposed to be bombed. Little boy's in that village, and he barely manages to get out of range because he went hunting that day, and came back to see that his village was bombed. Now the kid's got a dead village, the resulting radiation poisoning, and shrapnel and all sorts of things tearing into his feet."

It goes on from there, but needless to say there's a shitload of people who know full well that they're taking part in the killing of other people either directly or indirectly, and they either ignore this fact, or figure that the benefits, as stated before, outweigh this fact.

@ Irony...ummm...I just saw the sentence that no matter the commitment of preists, what they do is bad.

Ahem. You just said preists are bad people.

So...I didn't need to read the rest, since that proves you're full of shit, and also obviously bias.

Uhmmm... I'm Christian ! so, I gonna say that I believe in my god 100% and yes he's a benevolent god !! I dunno U guys can believe me or not but anytime I got some of difficulties in my life I always ask for his help !! And he always help me to overcome it !!
Reading the bible out every night makes me feel that he always besides me and know anything I do !! Ruu...

I never said all priests are bad people......I said a lot of them spew misinformation.

Now I know you are just twisting words.....





Did you read the bloody parts of the bible?

The parts where god orders the brutal mass murdering of innocent women and children?

Such a loving god there.

I bet those people who are over in third world countries starving to death everyday are being loved by god too right?

How about all those young women being raped in tortured? most likely at this moment.

Just by looking around at the world god's love must be far spread right?

I never said all priests are bad people......I said a lot of them spew misinformation.

Now I know you are just twisting words.....



[Says the guy who accused me of hating people in general.

You said and I quote, [quote="Ironytaken"]
Also it doesn't matter how much commitment priests have if what they are doing is causing problems. A lot of the priests are smart enough to know what is poppycock in the bible and yet they lie to the people and spew out more misinformation.

If I didn't have a conscious I would have no problem taking a job as a priest or anyone who works in religious affairs. It is a dam easy job to spew misinformation to the uneducated masses. I just have to much of a conscious to willingly do that.

Now, accusing preists of knowingly leading people wrongly, and saying they don't have consciousnesses is definatley accusing them of being bad people.

Don't place yourself on a high horse and say, "I'm just too good a person to be a preist." because that's bullshit. Preists don't knowingly mislead people...fuck a lot of them don't even say anything along the lines of, "Believe the stories in the bible." What preists do is tell the stories of the bible, and talk about how they can be applied to modern day experiences...helping people better live life who are having problems, giving people hope, making people happy.

But of course if all that is a problem, then please explain how.

Yah priests have knowingly admitted to spewing misinformation. I never said they don't have consciousnesses I said for me to do what they do I would have to have no conscious.

Never said I was too good a person to be a priest. But I dam well couldn't be one because I am not good at lying since I know the bible is false.

Yah some priests might give people deluded hope but I am not talking about those priests I am talking about the ones who swindle money from people and give false information that can be dangerous.

If those priests were such good people then they should try making the world a better place rather than giving false hope. Maybe a first step would be to admit that condoms don't give aids. Maybe they should try to stop the problem in Africa with parents accusing their children of being witches and torturing them. The Christian pastors over in Africa are helping to torture the children. Maybe the Pope should of said something to people in Africa about that.

Doing a small amount of good does not negate the massive amount of problems they cause. If these were such good people they would press for freedom and equality between all people instead of bigotry and separation.

Now don't try to twist my words and say I think all priests are like that but the ones who do have power are sure not doing much good with it.


I think being a scientist and researching ways to actually improve peoples' life is a much more noble job.

A man like Norman Borlaug should be honored much more than some silly pope or priest. Norman saved over one billion people by fathering the green revolution. He developed new plant breeding techniques which saved over one billion people from famine.

Which implies you need no conscious to do it. There's no getting out of that. Besides I ALREADY stated that they might think the stories are false, but that's not what they spread, it's advice based off of the stories concerning modern day life that they spread. That's like people who got off drugs thanks to A Million Little Pieces got pissed off cause it was a fiction book. Fuck you and be grateful to being helped.




You think that the STORIES are false. Yes I can understand this, bvut it takes a noble thought process to turn those stories into something useful for humanity.



You have NO iunformation on the percentage pf preists who do that. How do you know the good preists aren't the majority?



Lol.

I like how you think all preists are direct followers of the Pope. Some psycho Crhistians go over and encourage witch trials, and that reflects on all the preists who don't personally go over there and do something about it? How about the number of preists and holy people that go over to Asian countries and African countries and feed the hungry? That's not a good thing? And since you cna't say they're providing FALSE hope, I'm gonna go ahead and let you edit that bit out.



Wah, they don't do enough in feeding ithe world's hungry, making people's lives happy, and providing shelter to the homeless. Shame on them for not doing more. God you're ignorant. Besides the Pope himself said he will recognize a branch of gay Catholics. Is that not SOMETHING?



Again, they obviously aren't doing enough in feeding the world, providing shelter and providing happiness for the depressed. THEY MUST DO MOAR GODDAMMIT!



One way to help the world is not the only one.



I think the pope is the only internationally reknowned holy person. And not even the Pope personally, it's the TITLE of Pope that everyone knows and respects. Otherwise, the holy people aren't really known for doing a whole lot...despite how much they help people. Odd you shoudl mention saving people from famine...presits and the like are doing that every day...since you think that's such a noble cause, thanks for agreeing that they're good.

Yes priests can do good and bad just like everyone else. A gun can be used for good or bad but do we really need guns in this world?

Those priests who help feed people don't need religion to do it. You don't need religion to stop being a drug addict. You can do all of those things without religion.

Religion is not needed. Even if you are trying to do good with it you are doing it through false means.

It would be great if religion were not in this world or if it were a minority thing with little influence. If there are people who cannot live without religion maybe they are better off wiping themselves out and cleaning the gene pool.

I don't think religion will ever die out completely and it will probably take on new forms in the future but I doubt the same silly superstitions will last long as our technology advances and our understanding of the universe grows.

I don't need religion to be a good person, I don't need religion for anything and I think most people don't either.

If people kept their religion to themselves and out of other peoples life's then maybe I wouldn't mind as much but that is impossible to do.