Debate on Mosque & Cultural Center near 9/11 grounds

Hence the mosque shit in there. It's not like their one and only reason for this was to have muslims do religious shit (unless you don't trust them and think this "community center" stuff is a bunch of fluff. "HAHAHAHA, they'll never figure out that the one and only reason we built this was to have more prayer for allah!"). The building itself will still be a community center.

*shrugs* it will still have the purposes of religion in it so you can't really call it a community center and expect that suddenly, it's not related.

"Muslims have as much of a right to practice their religion, as everyone else in this country."

I agree the community center will have some positive effects on the minds of anti-Muslims who will visit the center. But from my point of view, the damage that will be done seems to outweigh the restitution of anti-Muslims' opinions across the nation.



I think we need to fix the problem right under our nose before we move on. Also, I don't think their disposition would change either way since their media would find other ways to feed them hatred either way.



Fix'd.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011799,00.html

There are a lot of people across the US who will not have the benefit of desensitization from the community center, who have just reinforced their hatred for Muslims because of the mosque.



Causing an even bigger rift, which apparently is the complete opposite of what the Imam wants.

The right option isn't always the smart option.

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I'll try and explain my post so a 3 yr old can understand.

People expect a McDonald's to serve food and drinks, whether it be a stand alone building or it be housed in a mega mall.

People expect a mosque to serve the religion of Islam, whether it be a stand alone building or it be housed in a community center.

Unlike sex, size is not the issue here.

The end.



No one really has an issue with the community center outside of it housing a mosque, therefore, there is no point in lumping the other facilities within the community center in this debate.

Anybody claiming to be hurt by this is blaming the wrong cause. It wasn't the religion that hurt them, it was the minority of radicals that hurt them.

I still don't see how this could be a bad idea at all, unless you can see Americans over-reacting and doing something less than savory.

Then what can you say about all those chapels which is not large in buildings that is in my country? can you call them churches just because just because it is expected to serve the religion of Christians?

How about Small mosques that is build in Cristian schools that is for the muslim teachers and students? (this is not a lie it exist) CAn you still say that the single building is a mosque, that only consist of one medium room?

There's a mall in my country that builds a small mosque in it's roof top parking area, can you still consider the whole building related to muslim and is called a mosque?


Final question:
Can you accept the fact that it's not mosque?
Which has been stated many times, and just because there's no smaller word for them like Chapels compared to churches.
(it exist though in my country as Musholla's, a praying space that is so small, that it can only fit 50 person)

I already explained earlier how people could be genuinely hurt.

Wait, I have said nothing about the services that the Mosque will provide, I was simply pointing out how stupid you were for going "are the visionaries of Park51 lying out of their asses?" when someone was pointing out that it won't be a proper Mosque, since it will not have some points that are crucial to the building, such as the Minaret and the dome. And yes that is probably a size issue, the Mosque can't be big enough to have a Minaret and a Dome because that would mean cutting down on space for the Community Center.



It is, since the the protests are against the entire Park51 and not only the Mosque, that in fact, will not be a part of the Community Center but be run separately. But that is probably because the general masses are to stupid to actually know what they're against, finding out facts is usually not of prime importance when dealing with minorities and factions you don't really like. Even if it should be.


But I'll withdraw from here, this discussion is not only pointless, it's absurdly stupid. Insensitive my ass, if people were only slightly open minded and didn't have their head up their asses judging out all Muslims as potential terrorists because of something an extremist group did there wouldn't be a discussion about this at all.

You mean this? Hardly an explanation, please tell me why you think people will be hurt, besides the fact there is going to be a worshiping/prayer/meditation area (they are allowing us to spectate them openly, which kind of requires a lot of faith to be able to do this in front of groups of people).

The point in making the new one is to accommodate more people.

All you state is that people will have a reason to be hurt, but you didn't actually state the reason.

I reassert my position that the only reason this could ever be bad is if the bigoted masses (or few, most likely) react terribly to a genuine act of trying to foster good relations and put to rest common misconceptions.

In the cases you provided above, no. But in this case, yes. The official site calls it a mosque, so I will call it a mosque until they decide to call it by its proper name.



I refer you to a post I made previously:






Quite honestly, I really don't care what its called and I'm guessing no one does either. The part that's got everyone's panties in a knot is the fact that the facility will serve a religion the terrorists used as an excuse to justify their act.



No, you did not mention anything about its purpose, but you will notice you quoted me saying a bit more than "are the visionaries of Park51 lying out of their asses?". So when you decided to quote my post without understanding the full context of it, I decided to explain myself.



I don't know about you, but I noticed a lot of posters in this thread talking about people being ignorant to the community center housing other facilities other than the mosque. I agree. I don't think a lot of people realize there will be anything more than a mosque, and truthfully, the only thing people are discriminating against.


EDIT:



Lol, might piss off people who know about it even more. If a mosque being 2 blocks from GZ can do this, a memorial for 9/11 sharing the same building might be outrageously maddening.

Stance I support: We shouldn't reward bigotry.

Wrong post

A sizable presence of Muslims in Manhattan. Think about that. Enough to warrant a new facility (plus more so that everyone understands why this addition is necessary). The Muslims are there. People who live there think about it everyday, interact with them on a daily basis, do business, eat with them, co-exist with them. Why the big deal about building the facility that could put things on the right track, showing us that the religion and people aren't about violence? That it was a radical few who bottled it.

It isn't about bringing back the hurt. That, in all likelihood, will happen. But it may be necessary so that they don't remain prejudiced against the wrong people. That's what the cultural center is about, to help them understand the religion and a vast majority of those who believe in it aren't out for blood.

Life happens. People will be reminded about loss. But that goes for everyone who has ever lost someone close to them. What you're suggesting is we coddle the few who were hurt, instead of promoting understanding of the lot who have done nothing wrong, but are still hated by many. If you do that, the people whose feelings you are trying to 'protect' will just get angrier and more hateful over nothing.

I'm not reading 7 pages to make a coherent post so i'll just put my opinion here.

Americans are so ignorant it makes me laugh. Not all Muslims are extremists like portrayed through your propaganda stream channel Fox. I don't even know why this is an issue tbh.

Legally? Nothing wrong.

Morally? Completely wrong.

This is just a big provocation against global peace. They're trying to spark some action like bored little children with no regard for the consequences.



I would've expected a less biased opinion from a fakku elite tbh.
Might just aswell be me disagreeing on every point.
Meh.

There is a reason I watch MSNBC and not Fox

Bias because I'm not supporting the American side?

This is anything but morally wrong, Americans need to grow the fuck up and realize that they are not as important as they think they are.

Legality is not an issue, obviously, as it is all taken care of in the planning stages. Morals are personal, and you can't impose everything you believe on other people. It's counterproductive. Can you please explain why you'd think it would be immoral to build it?

There have been a variety of opinions posted on why there is no problem with going ahead in the construction of the community center, and plenty of reasons why this would be a good opportunity to grasp at.

Global peace is also not an issue, because there is obviously not very much peace going on at all in a lot of places. America isn't the world. I'm sure more thought has been put into the production of this center than any of us here could possibly put into it, as they've been looking for a good location for the last 7 years.

There is nothing wrong with stating your opinion on the OP's discourse after several pages without regard to what other people have said. It's been done before, it'll be done again. I did it before getting into it. To just state a response to the OP with out biting bait everywhere is nice to see sometimes.

You guys seem to be misunderstanding, i'd care as much about this, as I would if the case were in england, spain, south-africa, madagascar.

That out of the way, in my opinion this is nothing but taunting folks like the Taliban, tempting them to make a move. To further disrupt what little peace we have because I -know- how fcked up everything is. But you've gotta admit, not alot of big bombings going around lately hmm? London, spain and the USA ones have long since passed and I haven't heard of any big ones lately. Why taunt them, even if they might not respond, into taking action?

It's the most stupid idea i've ever heard of.

I know i'll be the one laughing if the place gets blown up or some massive movement against the building of those things arises...

Compressed: I care enough to say it's a bad idea. Yet I care too little to give a flying f*** about what happens >.>

Edit: On a side note, you'd be mad if you thought I was gonna read 7 pages filled with 1000 word posts just so I can get my own opinion out whilest accurately BSing other posters.

Ok , where the fuck is this anti-american bullshit coming from ? Last I checked the people who had an issue with this building where 9/11 victims ,and some 9/11 sympathizers..and correct me if I'm wrong but they don't make up the entirety of america..sooo you're kinda doing the same thing your condemning these people for doing to muslims by just putting as all in one group..how's that hypocrisy treating ya?