Atheism

Haha, or the removal of "Under God" in the United States Pledge of Allegiance. I always thought that one was good. I'll admit it bothers me a bit because I'm not swearing anything in my life to God, but I simply choose not to stand for the Pledge. Hell of a lot easier than trying to take it out of a country that was founded on religious freedoms.

Religious freedom just goes both ways. You can believe what you want, or choose to believe in nothing. As long as those damn door-to-door religious people stop whoring my door and leave me alone then I promise not to step in a church and burn the place when I catch on fire. :P

I consider myself atheist, and I assume an attitude I think everyone else should. Regarding religion at least: if it doesn't affect me, than what is the problem?

I couldn't care less what religion people practice and believe in. Good for them, I won't ever bring it up in conversation, cause personally, I believe it all to be a bunch of hooey. (Yeah I said hooey) And at the same time, ye religous folk would consider me wrong. Agree to disagree, do what you want, just don't judge my thoughts. All there is to it.

Besides, instead of debating religion, we could go do something fun. Like play some pool. Just ordered me a new cue. :)

Mother Teresa was an awful person, in my opinion.

"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."

I am an atheist too. More a science guy than supernatural(even if I know a lot on it, I like to learn more on mythology, legend, etc.).
So I don't think there a God or gods. Life after death? Don't think so. You must try to live each day like they're no tomorow(I said try, you must work for living, that our world). Don't care about a 'unsure' afterlife(paradise, hell, bind to be a portergheist).

Bu what I think about religion or cult(religion are kind of a cult in some way anyway):
Ancient Testament show us a cruel God. Show us Lilith(create after Adam, firt women, egal to him) who defy god because she don't like to be dominate by Adam(she's the first feminist...and become queen of hell, mother of all succubus and incubus, but that another story). After God create Eve to be inferior to Adam. What the ancient and new testament show: women must be inferior to man(I don't approve, but that what the holy book say).

All Holy book, or other paper kind(scroll, etc.) give us:
-Moral & discipline
All their 'story' are more a kind of fiction fable. Saying what good, what bad.

I think that all religion give us how to interact with each other at some point. They shouldn't be read as 'real story'.

Be good to other, don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat, etc.
That the only use I see with religion, they've influence mankind history, they were powerfull in the past, now they're fading away slowly.

While I think Hitchins twisted the scenario that involved that quote, I don't care about what Mother Teresa did either. She wasn't all sunshine and rainbows.

Just because you rather reign in hell than serve in heaven.

You idea is totally rejected.

Don't forget that the words "under God" were added in 1954



The statement that the United States is a nation 'under God' is an endorsement of religion. It is a profession of a religious belief, namely, a belief in monotheism. If you doubt that the phrase "under God" is religious, then try substituting 'under Buddha' or 'under Allah,' or 'under Krishna,' and repeat the Pledge."

In case some asshole tries to claim "America is a Christian Nation and the freedom of religion only extends to Christianity and it's branches" then allow me to point you to the treaty of Tripoli which was ratified by the senate and signed into law by President Adams



As for the second half, I'm in agreement with Tsurayu. I'll leave the faithful alone if the faithful leave me alone(which I mean stop trying to pass laws that cram their religious beliefs down my throat).

Meh, the government seems to take whatever stance seems to be more convenient at the time. As long as I don't get harassed for not going to church on Sunday then whatever floats their boat, or not standing for the Pledge (although I have been harassed for that one, but it is a fair bit more understandable.)

I will say though that it pisses me off that Indiana is one of the handful of states left that prohibits the selling of alcohol on Sunday. I don't drink myself, but it is still stupid to not allow the sale of alcohol on one of the busiest shopping days for some stupid religious cult reason.

The reason was because America was showing it's unification against the godless communists of the U.S.S.R.,etc. Which also extends to why we fought in wars against communist countries like north Vietnam and Korea. While it wasn't the sole reason we were there it was a contributing factor as why we were there.

Also, I agree, not selling alcohol on Sundays is stupid. If your religion forbids alcohol on Sundays then don't drink it on Sundays (or if your a store owner don't sell on Sundays). That would be like a Shia Muslim demanding that we don't eat rabbit at all. I'm sorry but, that's your religion not mine. You don't see Hindu's bashing the rest of the world over the head screaming "Don't eat beef!"

Hm, I never really thought about it that way. It always bothered me why some people became so upset that I didn't stand. I ask them why do they stand when half of my friends either weren't religious or were Agnostic/Atheists themselves. It isn't my fault that you just do it out of habit. No one even knows what it means anymore. It doesn't imply that I'm disrespectful to the nation I live in, rather that I'm not standing for something that I don't believe in.

"Oh just do it. You're such a non-conformist asshole." I heard that one a lot. Well, how about stop being a conformist and jumping in the bandwagon when you don't even know what you are standing for. *shrugs*

A lot of interesting, and at times heated, arguments. May I refer those who are really interested in this topic to a book by Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion. The title tells you what he thinks about God, but he gives many arguments for god (and their rebuttals of course) and against god. So it's awesome for anyone, atheist or not, if you read it with a pinch of salt.

Here is my view. Currently, there is absolutely no solid evidence that either proves or disproves the existence of god. If there is, we would be discussing this right now would we? However, exactly because of the lack of evidence, I am inclined to believe that most likely God does not exist. The claim that god exists without evidence has little substance over the claim that a teapot too small to be observed is orbitting the sun in between earth and mars.

There is the argument that everything needs to be moved by something before it moves, or everything must have a beginning, and that is god. Well, other than recommending you to take a course in high school physics, I also say that you can call that something God if you like, or you can call it fried chicken. This act of naming does not make whatever that started everything into the god you believe in, or god in any sense of that word, nor the thing they sell at KFC.

Even if there is a god, what makes you think its your god? can it not be Zeus? Ra? Budha? Or the millions of deities and gods that ever existed in human culture?

To me, the concept of a god seems too convenient and human, in the sense that it can easily be conjured up by an imaginative person, and refined to explain things that people don't understand. Like lightening (think zeus), floods, famines etc. Then these ideas are taken by power hungry manipulative people to subject others to their will, and do their bidding. Hence we have the emergence of a whole class of people who basically eat off the work of others. And these people will do their best to ensure that their followers continue to be 'devoted' (by giving money) and resist temptations (to stop giving money). And that is the bottom line of religion today.

It always seemed like pledging allegiance to the government than anything else. I even trolled anyone who cared enough by saying, "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of RUSSIA..." Today I am disgusted at myself for having ever recited one of those things in its proper form.

"When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." - Robert M.Pirsig

That is a lovely quote.. Also I'm a huge Dawkins fan. Also love Harris, Hitchens, Dennett, and the rest of that crowd. There are some truly great books out there. I'll comment more on this subject later.

I also love:

"But this is America, where we unapologetically bastardize other countries' cultures in a gross quest for moral and military supremacy"

Which I'm pretty sure originated from Amy Sherman-Palladino, but it's used by so many now I'm not sure who the original is.

Oh well, slightly off the beaten path with that anyway.

The God Delusion is good... but I might recommend "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris if you want to read something that's entirely made of win and awesome. It is by far the most clear and level headed response to religious ideology ever written. You'll be amazed so many times.